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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hamishspence" data-source="post: 5004502" data-attributes="member: 41555">weighingSharks caught in fishing contests, even big ones, do, I think, get weighed pretty accurately- possibly a winch built for the purpose? That said, 4000 pounds (and anything from 17 to 21 ft long) is pretty reasonable for a Huge animal- it just gives it a rather short reach. Which could possibly be made up for, by removing either tail slap or bite (a whale shark wouldn't try and bite, a Great White wouldn't do tail slaps) The figures usually given for the biggest whale shark caught (free-swimming specimens have been reported as rather bigger) was 41 ft long and estimated 15 tons. A good place to start Gargantuan at. One thing I have noticed about WoTC creatures- hit dices doesn't correspond all that well to weight. A 12 HD Gargantuan sperm whale-shaped creature, with a length given as 60 ft (Elsewhale, in Planar Handbook), seems decidedly low, given just how heavy a sperm whale actually is. Compare to an 18 HD T. rex. Same applies to Str- if Str 35 is normal for a Gargantuan sperm whale, a Huge dinosaur should have a much lower Str. Or a Gargantuan one, if it's weight is fairly close to the Huge dinosaur. Or just boost the Str of the whale, if it is under-strength. If I was to stat out a 52 ft long, 47 tonne Gargantuan megalodon, I'd give it rather more than MM2's 20 HD. It is one big beast. And I might consider putting Colossal as the upper limit on its size advancement. (The 52 ft shark was based on a largest tooth size of 6.61 inches. The largest megalodon tooth ever discovered seems to be around 7.62 inches, or 7 and 5/8 inches). Of course, given that we're chucking out the basic rules for Spinosaurus (50 ft long, but quite a bit less than 32 ft long from nose to base of tail, and only 9 tons in weight) maybe we could have a general rule that macropredators can be smaller and lighter, within the same size category, than other creatures? If a 32 ft Orca is Gargantuan, maybe, for really chunky, fish-shaped creatures, the rule is length to tip of tail? Similarly, a 16 ft Orca would be Huge.</blockquote>

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