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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Revised 4E Rules for large groups
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<blockquote data-quote="eriktheguy" data-source="post: 5095298" data-attributes="member: 83662"><p>I agree with you that this is a likely problem consuming time at your table. It can't be what is slowing down your 7 player sessions though. At any level, each player in your 7 player group has the same number of powers as a player in your 4 player group. Each player has the same number of options, and spends the same number of time sifting through rules books and cards. The only difference could be if the players from your two groups spend different amounts of time deciding for other reasons (they are less experienced, they are rules lawyers, they want to always make the perfect moves).</p><p></p><p>If you have tried giving the monsters less HP and still cannot make combat shorter, then something is wrong.</p><p></p><p>I would suggest first and most importantly, that you ban all rules books at the table. Looking up a rule etc can slow the game by at least 5 minutes. A player should never have to look something up since all the information needed for a power is written on the power card (if you aren't using the character generator start using it). You can also keep a small printout with often-cited information on hand (combat modifiers, conditions, bull rush and grab rules are a good start). On the off chance that a rules clarification is needed, make the call yourself as GM and look it up later.</p><p></p><p>I would also suggest for a large group that you use a whiteboard. Record the defenses and initiative of every PC on the top half of the whiteboard. Record monster defenses and initiatives on the bottom half. Now people can prepare for their turn when they are next, and tell you how much damage the monster takes without having to say 'I hit 28 vs reflex'. Conversely you can tell players how much damage they take without having to ask them their defenses or memorise all (4 * 7 = 28) of them. Do this and there will be a lot less yelling at the table.</p><p></p><p>Don't roll damage. With that many monsters just do about average damage without taking all the time to roll. Sometimes do more or less. You seem to have a good grasp on math and rules mechanics, so I'm assuming you can do this in your head <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue :P" data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />. Now you only need a few d20s to play and combat should go faster.</p><p></p><p>Ask your players to think of what they will do before their turn. If someone's turn is coming up on the whiteboard and you notice they are chatting with their neighbor about last week's episode of Family Guy, let them know that they are next. Encourage them to act spontaneously if they still don't know what to do on their turn. This is combat after all, and 4e is forgiving. Give new players a bit of extra time on their turn. Try sitting newer players beside the helpful experienced players. If a new player wastes a daily or never uses their dailies, don't let the other players yell at or micromanage him/her. Just let them learn as they progress and give them some advice occasionally.</p><p></p><p>It is worth sitting down with the group and discussing slow combat with them. Show them the recording and explain that when they consult rules it slows things down. Explain to them that they win every combat, so they don't need to think for 5 minutes every turn about what is 'the perfect action'.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, if everyone is visibly being social and having fun during the slow, long fights, then there is no problem. Unless you as the GM aren't enjoying the session, in which case this might not be your ideal group.</p><p></p><p>Note: If the number of options is overwhelming your characters, they probably aren't going to be too keen on the idea of such a major houserule. Moreover, I don't see how you would implement it in the character builder.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="eriktheguy, post: 5095298, member: 83662"] I agree with you that this is a likely problem consuming time at your table. It can't be what is slowing down your 7 player sessions though. At any level, each player in your 7 player group has the same number of powers as a player in your 4 player group. Each player has the same number of options, and spends the same number of time sifting through rules books and cards. The only difference could be if the players from your two groups spend different amounts of time deciding for other reasons (they are less experienced, they are rules lawyers, they want to always make the perfect moves). If you have tried giving the monsters less HP and still cannot make combat shorter, then something is wrong. I would suggest first and most importantly, that you ban all rules books at the table. Looking up a rule etc can slow the game by at least 5 minutes. A player should never have to look something up since all the information needed for a power is written on the power card (if you aren't using the character generator start using it). You can also keep a small printout with often-cited information on hand (combat modifiers, conditions, bull rush and grab rules are a good start). On the off chance that a rules clarification is needed, make the call yourself as GM and look it up later. I would also suggest for a large group that you use a whiteboard. Record the defenses and initiative of every PC on the top half of the whiteboard. Record monster defenses and initiatives on the bottom half. Now people can prepare for their turn when they are next, and tell you how much damage the monster takes without having to say 'I hit 28 vs reflex'. Conversely you can tell players how much damage they take without having to ask them their defenses or memorise all (4 * 7 = 28) of them. Do this and there will be a lot less yelling at the table. Don't roll damage. With that many monsters just do about average damage without taking all the time to roll. Sometimes do more or less. You seem to have a good grasp on math and rules mechanics, so I'm assuming you can do this in your head :P. Now you only need a few d20s to play and combat should go faster. Ask your players to think of what they will do before their turn. If someone's turn is coming up on the whiteboard and you notice they are chatting with their neighbor about last week's episode of Family Guy, let them know that they are next. Encourage them to act spontaneously if they still don't know what to do on their turn. This is combat after all, and 4e is forgiving. Give new players a bit of extra time on their turn. Try sitting newer players beside the helpful experienced players. If a new player wastes a daily or never uses their dailies, don't let the other players yell at or micromanage him/her. Just let them learn as they progress and give them some advice occasionally. It is worth sitting down with the group and discussing slow combat with them. Show them the recording and explain that when they consult rules it slows things down. Explain to them that they win every combat, so they don't need to think for 5 minutes every turn about what is 'the perfect action'. On the other hand, if everyone is visibly being social and having fun during the slow, long fights, then there is no problem. Unless you as the GM aren't enjoying the session, in which case this might not be your ideal group. Note: If the number of options is overwhelming your characters, they probably aren't going to be too keen on the idea of such a major houserule. Moreover, I don't see how you would implement it in the character builder. [/QUOTE]
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