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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Primitive Screwhead" data-source="post: 5095566" data-attributes="member: 20805">You stated that you were trying  "...to challenge them and even so I find encounters to be painfully long and drawn out."  I don't think that reducing the players options will assist in challenging them and since my experience is counter to yours, I am at a loss as to what to suggest. There are alot of variables that go into the length of combat; party mix, group social styles, rules mastery, table rules, number of encounters per day, monster mix within encounters, availability of healing magic. There are tons of ideas regarding assistance with pretty much all of these, but I think without some more detail regarding your play experience and set-up, we would just be shooting into the dark and trying to hit an invisible target {...that is 'Tiny'.. whats that, -25 to hit?} Anyway, I suspect one of the areas that could be tweaked is the number of encounters per day and availability of healing.. Do your players stop before anyone gets below half healing surges? Are they able to use Dailies in almost every encounter? Regardless of the source, the two recommendations I have is to use circular initiative.. just start with the player to your left and work around the table. Sure you drop initiative rolls and some feats are pointless, but it is faster as everyone knows who is going next... and to talk to the players about the speed of combat. Suggest that if they are not sure what to do, use a basic attack... as to dropping 4e with your larger group... no matter what system you run a larger group will expereince slower combat. I once ran Paranoia with 10 players... combat was ***SLOW*** <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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