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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7440716" data-attributes="member: 82106">I think in one sense you have a point, why not just use color to bring things like Sleep into the realm of the standard &quot;when its hit points are gone its defeated&quot; paradigm. Sleep is a SOMEWHAT problematic power in that it was possible in the early pre-errata days to slot in enough save penalty mechanics on an orbizard to make it almost a sure thing, at which point it actually becomes close to the ultimate power (enough so that even Epic Orbizards built in that time period will usually retain this power as one of their daily choices, and even optimize around recovering it 2-3 times per day). Notably all options to recover daily powers were removed from the game by errata (there never were many) and all orbizard save penalty mechanics were reduced to being one-time penalties, or removed entirely.I'm not sure this is the best course of action though. Yes, you could make sleep do a whole bunch of psychic damage and let the character's declare the enemy to be 'not dead' at 0 hit points. Its hard to give a power enough damage to make this work in a way that is similar to old school SOD effects. This was the point of the 'chain of saves' mechanic, was to allow for a few holdout outlier neo-SODs to exist. Its not a perfect solution, but I feel like too much consistency is not a great thing. I mean, I want to keep things a little simpler than in 4e where it can get kind of crazy with minor variations on a theme, but still have a few big outliers that are distinctive.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7440716, member: 82106"] I think in one sense you have a point, why not just use color to bring things like Sleep into the realm of the standard "when its hit points are gone its defeated" paradigm. Sleep is a SOMEWHAT problematic power in that it was possible in the early pre-errata days to slot in enough save penalty mechanics on an orbizard to make it almost a sure thing, at which point it actually becomes close to the ultimate power (enough so that even Epic Orbizards built in that time period will usually retain this power as one of their daily choices, and even optimize around recovering it 2-3 times per day). Notably all options to recover daily powers were removed from the game by errata (there never were many) and all orbizard save penalty mechanics were reduced to being one-time penalties, or removed entirely. I'm not sure this is the best course of action though. Yes, you could make sleep do a whole bunch of psychic damage and let the character's declare the enemy to be 'not dead' at 0 hit points. Its hard to give a power enough damage to make this work in a way that is similar to old school SOD effects. This was the point of the 'chain of saves' mechanic, was to allow for a few holdout outlier neo-SODs to exist. Its not a perfect solution, but I feel like too much consistency is not a great thing. I mean, I want to keep things a little simpler than in 4e where it can get kind of crazy with minor variations on a theme, but still have a few big outliers that are distinctive. [/QUOTE]

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