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Message: <blockquote data-quote="dave2008" data-source="post: 8187529" data-attributes="member: 83242">Some of the newer subclass key abilities of proficiency.  I think a refreshed 5e will probably unify classes / subclasses around this type of design.First I want to clarify that I am not saying there were not more interesting versions of some monsters (or even most) in 4e.  4e had multiple versions of most monsters from the get go, where as 5e typical had one version, but had more different monsters.  However, over time there have been increasing versions of the same monsters.  Gnolls are a good example of this.  Frost Giants; however, are not. Also, one of the strengths when comparing 4e monsters to 5e monsters is all the movement and conditions they enforce. However, this was indicative of the system as whole.  It didn't feel special when play 4e because every monster did it. I also contend legendary monsters do a better job as solo creatures than the 4e "solos" did. And 5e mythic monsters even more so and even more evocative.However, there are certain things I like a lot about 4e monsters:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Roles (brute, soldier, etc) where interesting, gave you a starting point, and initially had mechanical impact (this became less and less as monster design was revised throughout the edition</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Tiers (minion, standard, elite, & solo): This design allowed a lot of flexibility and really appreciated it. I tried to impliment this in 5e, but it really isn't need with BA, you just use a higher CR monster or the ne mythic monster rules.</li> </ol>I used to agree with you, but I have since change my mind somewhat.  My preference is a combination.  When I design a 5e monster, i give it all of the traits, spells, and actions spelled out in its stat block to justify the CR.  I then add spell casting (per typical 5e design) as needed to round out the monster and give stuff for those who want to do a deeper dive. I like this because I don't have to detail all the spells out in the statblock, but I know they are there if I need them. Official 5e monsters are moving this way too (including at least on spell spelled out in the stat block).</blockquote>

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