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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7217660" data-attributes="member: 29398">True that.   They do?  I guess I must have changed that without realizing it. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Particularly if either side somehow gets surprise. (invisible dragons for the win!) I find they can't even seriously threaten a larger party of 7th-9th levels.  Sure, one or two will die when the breath gets 'em, but no TPK concerns anywhere as they simply swarm the thing.Yeah, the Tarrasque is a later invention, isn't it.One other way to beef 'em up - though more of a headache for the DM - is to seriously jack up their spellcasting abilities...and then give them pets or servants who aren't bothered (much) by the dragon's breath attack.  Thus, instead of having to deal with just a single dragon the party has to fight its way through the pets/servants while the dragon blasts away from behind the lines with spells and breath weapon.Now you've got a combat. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I've never found this to be a problem, in that dragons come in all sorts of different sizes and age categories.  Finding something to challenge a lower-level party is simple.Well, given that most dragons have pretty good magic resistance and-or saving throws, it'll still come to a melee beatdown in the end provided they can somehow get the dragon on the ground.  Also, dragons - for all their grace in the air - are kinda big and clumsy on the ground and are probably not helping their own cause by trying to move much.Two things here:First, there's always the "oriental" dragons from FF and MMII - I've found these can provide some interesting variants and twists...particularly when they can fly without wings! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Second, in terms of numbers I've sometimes gone the other way - sometimes you don't just find a mated pair but what amounts to a small flock, be it a family unit (parents and offspring) or a community who have found strength in numbers and have managed not to eat each other yet.  I think the most I've ever run at one go was a family of 5 blacks - ma, pa, and three young-ish offspring - against a party of something like 17 mid-level characters (long story as to how and why the huge party).  Ma and pa were typical adult dragons (but not huge or ancient or anything like that) while the "kids" were merely young adult, i.e. a threat in their own right.  Result: several party deaths and black dragon scale souvenirs all round.But most dragons are still loners, yes.Lanefan</blockquote>

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