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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7217715" data-attributes="member: 4937">I think you've changed a lot without realizing it.&nbsp; More on that in a bit.It is, and while it looks formidable on paper, it's a terrible design by someone that isn't particularly familiar with high level play.&nbsp; The problem with it is that it cannot fly and has no ranged weapons.&nbsp;&nbsp; It's also fairly slow moving, has only marginal physical defenses, and lacks magic resistance so even if you can't fly you can kite it.&nbsp; So while it's a brute up close, it is just a brute.&nbsp; It's some good defenses against common ranged attacks, and if you haven't encountered the stat block before some of its defenses might come as an unpleasant surprise, but ultimately a party that can take flight and pelt with ranged weapons shouldn't have much of a problem eventually killing it.&nbsp; They might be surprised at first when it keeps coming back, but ultimately it's just not well designed as a challenge.&nbsp; Oonga, with his 6&quot; vertical jump and devastating ranged attacks, is much more on point.&nbsp;&nbsp; Tarrasque versus dragon is probably a stand off.&nbsp; The dragon can't compete up close with the Tarrasque's bite of sharpness, but the Tarrasque's shell prevents the dragon from easily roasting the Tarrasque from the air.The Tarrasque is rated at 37500 XP, which I think is excessive because it's too easy to cheese it.&nbsp;&nbsp; You'll also note that 37500 means that there are several dragons on my list that are considered worse: huge blue great wyrm, red great wyrm, huge red wrym, and huge red great wrym.&nbsp; And several of the variants (huge psionic green great wyrm, two-headed huge green great wyrm, etc.) would also top that number.Well, unless I'm missing some note somewhere, played straight, a very young red dragon though it has only 20 h.p. is still a 10HD monster that has a 6d6 bite attack.&nbsp;&nbsp; The problem is that while 1e AD&amp;D dragons do scale, they don't actually scale evenly.&nbsp;&nbsp; They still retain many features of their full sized version.I'm pretty sure that dragon's don't get actual magic resistance until 2e AD&amp;D.&nbsp; The 1e ones have saves that scale with hit points, so that an ancient red dragon might save as a 17HD monster, and they have various small bonuses on their saving throws, but they don't get real magic resistance.&nbsp;&nbsp; Now sure, my variant dragons have exceptionally good magic resistance, and you are very unlikely to defeat one with a 'save or die' effect, but that's not the way they work out of the box.&nbsp;&nbsp; And really, in 1e, nothing that doesn't have at least enough magic resistance to make killing it with wands problematic is really tough against high level foes.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7217715, member: 4937"] I think you've changed a lot without realizing it. More on that in a bit. It is, and while it looks formidable on paper, it's a terrible design by someone that isn't particularly familiar with high level play. The problem with it is that it cannot fly and has no ranged weapons. It's also fairly slow moving, has only marginal physical defenses, and lacks magic resistance so even if you can't fly you can kite it. So while it's a brute up close, it is [I]just a brute[/I]. It's some good defenses against common ranged attacks, and if you haven't encountered the stat block before some of its defenses might come as an unpleasant surprise, but ultimately a party that can take flight and pelt with ranged weapons shouldn't have much of a problem eventually killing it. They might be surprised at first when it keeps coming back, but ultimately it's just not well designed as a challenge. Oonga, with his 6" vertical jump and devastating ranged attacks, is much more on point. Tarrasque versus dragon is probably a stand off. The dragon can't compete up close with the Tarrasque's bite of sharpness, but the Tarrasque's shell prevents the dragon from easily roasting the Tarrasque from the air. The Tarrasque is rated at 37500 XP, which I think is excessive because it's too easy to cheese it. You'll also note that 37500 means that there are several dragons on my list that are considered worse: huge blue great wyrm, red great wyrm, huge red wrym, and huge red great wrym. And several of the variants (huge psionic green great wyrm, two-headed huge green great wyrm, etc.) would also top that number. Well, unless I'm missing some note somewhere, played straight, a very young red dragon though it has only 20 h.p. is still a 10HD monster that has a 6d6 bite attack. The problem is that while 1e AD&D dragons do scale, they don't actually scale evenly. They still retain many features of their full sized version. I'm pretty sure that dragon's don't get actual magic resistance until 2e AD&D. The 1e ones have saves that scale with hit points, so that an ancient red dragon might save as a 17HD monster, and they have various small bonuses on their saving throws, but they don't get real magic resistance. Now sure, my variant dragons have exceptionally good magic resistance, and you are very unlikely to defeat one with a 'save or die' effect, but that's not the way they work out of the box. And really, in 1e, nothing that doesn't have at least enough magic resistance to make killing it with wands problematic is really tough against high level foes. [/QUOTE]

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