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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7228746" data-attributes="member: 4937">Questions relating to balance:So I realize the very idea of balance sounds weird and antithetical to the usual approach of 1e AD&amp;D, but lack of balance was also a repeated problem in my 1e AD&amp;D play and the problem was that as a teenage DM I just didn't have the tools to address the issue.My question is simple.&nbsp;&nbsp; If you are playing 1e AD&amp;D or some OSR clone, would the above dragons seem balanced at appropriate times to the abilities of your party.#1) My biggest concern is that I've over compensated for the dragons vulnerability to magic by making their magic resistance too good.&nbsp; Keep in mind that 1e Magic Resistance is applied to an 11th level caster, and it's +/-5% for being above or below that level.&nbsp; For a party of the expected level, this is the expected level of effective magic resistance for different dragons:[TABLE=&quot;width: 623&quot;][TR][TD]Small White[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; White[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; Black[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; Green[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; Blue[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; Red[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; Huge Red[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]48%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 48%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 49%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 50%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 50%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 50%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 50%[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]56%&nbsp; &nbsp; [/TD][TD]56%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 53%&nbsp; &nbsp; [/TD][TD]55%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 55%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 55%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 55%[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]59%&nbsp; &nbsp; [/TD][TD]59%&nbsp; &nbsp; [/TD][TD]62%&nbsp; &nbsp; [/TD][TD]60%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 55%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 55%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 55%[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]67%&nbsp; &nbsp; [/TD][TD]62%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 61%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 65%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 55%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 55%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 55%[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]70%&nbsp; &nbsp; [/TD][TD]65%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 70%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 65%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 60%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 60%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 60%[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]73%&nbsp; &nbsp; [/TD][TD]63%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 69%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 70%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 70%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 65%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 65%[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]81%&nbsp; &nbsp; [/TD][TD]71%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 73%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 80%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 75%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 75%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 70%[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]79%&nbsp; &nbsp; [/TD][TD]79%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 82%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 85%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 80%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 80%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 65%[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]82%&nbsp; &nbsp; [/TD][TD]82%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 86%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 90%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 80%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 80%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 60%[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]90%&nbsp; &nbsp; [/TD][TD]85%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 90%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 95%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 80%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 75%[/TD][TD]&nbsp; &nbsp; 65%[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]I already nerfed white and black dragon magic resistance a bit, because otherwise M-U's would be pretty useless facing white or black dragons at a point where such dragons could otherwise legitimately threaten the party.&nbsp;&nbsp; Even so, dragons as described above are nearly immune to magic until the party is well above the expected level.&nbsp;&nbsp; What is a reasonable value for magic resistance, keeping in mind the goal that parties should not be able to 'cheese' a dragon by applying some single spell as a 'win button'.#2) Is the expected damage per round from physical attacks reasonable?&nbsp;&nbsp; This is a bit harder to calculate because different sizes of dragons can 'focus fire' to different degrees, but keep in mind that I'm trying to keep dragons alive 3-5 rounds.&nbsp;&nbsp; So ignoring area of effect damage from trample and breath weapons, are the dragons doing enough damage to threaten a party over that period so that if/when the dragon goes down everyone breathes a big sigh of relief and talks about how that was getting tense?#3) Are the defenses enough to keep the dragon alive (or at least, any dragon bigger than a hatchling) for the 3-5 rounds I'm theory crafting?&nbsp; I'm assuming a reasonably well equipped, moderately large (6-8 PCs) party with access to the Unearthed Arcana rules.&nbsp;&nbsp; Treasure and ability score assumptions of course vary widely between campaigns, but assume something appropriate to your campaign and power scale.#4) Is something like this welcome?&nbsp; Would you use something like this?&nbsp; Is it easy to use and understand in the current format?&nbsp; What did I get wrong?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7228746, member: 4937"] Questions relating to balance: So I realize the very idea of balance sounds weird and antithetical to the usual approach of 1e AD&D, but lack of balance was also a repeated problem in my 1e AD&D play and the problem was that as a teenage DM I just didn't have the tools to address the issue. My question is simple. If you are playing 1e AD&D or some OSR clone, would the above dragons seem balanced at appropriate times to the abilities of your party. #1) My biggest concern is that I've over compensated for the dragons vulnerability to magic by making their magic resistance too good. Keep in mind that 1e Magic Resistance is applied to an 11th level caster, and it's +/-5% for being above or below that level. For a party of the expected level, this is the expected level of effective magic resistance for different dragons: [TABLE="width: 623"] [TR][TD]Small White[/TD][TD] White[/TD][TD] Black[/TD][TD] Green[/TD][TD] Blue[/TD][TD] Red[/TD][TD] Huge Red[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]48%[/TD][TD] 48%[/TD][TD] 49%[/TD][TD] 50%[/TD][TD] 50%[/TD][TD] 50%[/TD][TD] 50%[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]56% [/TD][TD]56%[/TD][TD] 53% [/TD][TD]55%[/TD][TD] 55%[/TD][TD] 55%[/TD][TD] 55%[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]59% [/TD][TD]59% [/TD][TD]62% [/TD][TD]60%[/TD][TD] 55%[/TD][TD] 55%[/TD][TD] 55%[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]67% [/TD][TD]62%[/TD][TD] 61%[/TD][TD] 65%[/TD][TD] 55%[/TD][TD] 55%[/TD][TD] 55%[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]70% [/TD][TD]65%[/TD][TD] 70%[/TD][TD] 65%[/TD][TD] 60%[/TD][TD] 60%[/TD][TD] 60%[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]73% [/TD][TD]63%[/TD][TD] 69%[/TD][TD] 70%[/TD][TD] 70%[/TD][TD] 65%[/TD][TD] 65%[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]81% [/TD][TD]71%[/TD][TD] 73%[/TD][TD] 80%[/TD][TD] 75%[/TD][TD] 75%[/TD][TD] 70%[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]79% [/TD][TD]79%[/TD][TD] 82%[/TD][TD] 85%[/TD][TD] 80%[/TD][TD] 80%[/TD][TD] 65%[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]82% [/TD][TD]82%[/TD][TD] 86%[/TD][TD] 90%[/TD][TD] 80%[/TD][TD] 80%[/TD][TD] 60%[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]90% [/TD][TD]85%[/TD][TD] 90%[/TD][TD] 95%[/TD][TD] 80%[/TD][TD] 75%[/TD][TD] 65%[/TD][/TR] [/TABLE] I already nerfed white and black dragon magic resistance a bit, because otherwise M-U's would be pretty useless facing white or black dragons at a point where such dragons could otherwise legitimately threaten the party. Even so, dragons as described above are nearly immune to magic until the party is well above the expected level. What is a reasonable value for magic resistance, keeping in mind the goal that parties should not be able to 'cheese' a dragon by applying some single spell as a 'win button'. #2) Is the expected damage per round from physical attacks reasonable? This is a bit harder to calculate because different sizes of dragons can 'focus fire' to different degrees, but keep in mind that I'm trying to keep dragons alive 3-5 rounds. So ignoring area of effect damage from trample and breath weapons, are the dragons doing enough damage to threaten a party over that period so that if/when the dragon goes down everyone breathes a big sigh of relief and talks about how that was getting tense? #3) Are the defenses enough to keep the dragon alive (or at least, any dragon bigger than a hatchling) for the 3-5 rounds I'm theory crafting? I'm assuming a reasonably well equipped, moderately large (6-8 PCs) party with access to the Unearthed Arcana rules. Treasure and ability score assumptions of course vary widely between campaigns, but assume something appropriate to your campaign and power scale. #4) Is something like this welcome? Would you use something like this? Is it easy to use and understand in the current format? What did I get wrong? [/QUOTE]

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