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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 7484746" data-attributes="member: 4348">AD&D was meant to end FAR earlier than what people later took it to.  5e going to 20th level is actually rather crazily high in comparison to the end game for AD&D.AD&D had HIGH level as around 9th-11th level.  Above that and you were ULTRA High and into the Epic levels...where yes...you were dealing with extra-planar threats.  Originally OD&D only went up to 6th level spells.  Casters were meeting the ultimate limits of magic.At 9th level it was expected that characters would start getting accolades of the world.  Their feats and accomplishments would be so well known they would be able to be given titles and lands, responsibilities...which led to...Retirement.That's right, character retirement as a Lord or Master Wizard with their own tower and students, or the chief of the Thieves guild happens somewhere around 9th to 11th level.  That is the END GAME.If one wanted to continue, of course they could...but then there are things FAR more deadly than dragons beyond the Dungeons and Dragons game.After the End Game, you no longer are really going through the Dungeons or fighting Dragons...your greatest enemies will either be extra-planar things beyond the scope of the prime material plane most normally...OR...creatures of your own making...other Humans who were opposed to you.This is also why level limits were NOT as bad a penalty as some think they were in AD&D.  They weren't supposed to be horrible penalties, as they normally just meant the Demi-humans were a level or two behind what the Humans would reach eventually. In BECMI, this of course was different.  That game didn't have the expectation that the campaign may end around 9th - 11th level with the PC's retiring, and if you wanted to continue you would make new PC's to adventure in that same world...instead the campaign could go up to 36th level or even to the Immortal status.Which is why in the Companion rules (levels 15-25) you have larger dragons that have 2x to 3x the power of the smaller dragons you dealt with originally.But...BECMI is NOT AD&D.  Understanding that the game of AD&D basically went from 1-10th level (11th level for Magic-Users) is key to understanding a LOT of the decisions that went into it from level limits on races, to why certain monsters were designed the way they were.Sure, the game is open ended and you could progress far beyond what was originally intended (and thus why you have higher level spells where Magic-Users can literally get power beyond what even many deities could do with the Wish spell, and other things), but overall the game was designed for gamers going from 1st to around 9th-11th level.</blockquote>

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