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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7484894" data-attributes="member: 29398">1e AD&D, yes.  2e levels could go into the lower stratosphere, as could BECMI (the 'I' part doesn't even start until 36th level, if memory serves; and can go to 100th or beyond).Here I somewhat disagree.While name level certainly has the possibility of bringing added responsibility and retirement, it remains up to the player/PC as to whether to follow that path or to keep on adventuring.Put another way, just because the rules allow a Fighter to build a stronghold at 9th level doesn't mean she has to.  It just means that any effort to do so before 9th level is more or less likely to fail.As written, this is true.  My point is that this is a problem with the as-written version, and that Dragons (and Giants, for all that) simply aren't tough enough, when looked at in hindsight.  Fortunately, this is a trivially easy thing for a DM to fix.The biggest problem with level limits, when looked at from a purely design angle, was that for far too many race-class combinations they meant non-Human PCs could simply never reach name level.  In-game, this flat-out doesn't make sense.Another issue with level limits comes with Clerics.  Non-Human races are quite limited on how far they can go as Clerics, which implies either a) that only Humans can be religious enough to advance to high-level in Cleric or b) that the non-Human deities aren't strong enough to support high-level Clerics.  Either of these is hogwash.Which are easy to port over to 1e if desired... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Except that if the game went to 11th level for MUs then it went to 12th or 13th for various other classes, assuming each PC ended up with vaguely the same number of xp over its career; as MU (along with Ranger and Paladin) was among the slowest-advancing classes.I agree that 1e kinda tops out at about 9th-11th as written.  I've been playing and DMing it for 35+ years and have - as of now - seen but 5 PCs (out of about a thousand!) get to 12th level.  But we've also been tweaking the game over that time, with one of the goals specifically being to try and keep the system on the rails into the low-teens level-wise.  Jury's still out on success on this.You don't give your deities Wish-like powers at will?Deities, in 1e, are something else that really seriously need a massive jump-up in their powers.  The way I see it, any deity should be nigh-unassailable by mere mortals except in the rarest of circumstances.Lan-"10th level and counting"-efan</blockquote>

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