Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Million Dollar TTRPG Crowdfunders
Most Anticipated Tabletop RPGs Of The Year
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
ShortQuests -- individual adventure modules! An all-new collection of digest-sized D&D adventures designed to plug in to your game.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Revised and Rebalanced Magic-User for 1e AD&D
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9886062" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Probably not; see my next answer.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>At this point, no. While I never did play 2e per se, when revising 1e it's always going to be worth asking whether the official 2e revision made sense, and even back in the day we often agreed that they did and adopted them where we liked them. I think before I'd revise the Illusionist, I'd write in some sort of port of 2e's specialty wizards into the game and then let you play Illusionist or Necromancer out of the box without needing a separate class.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>How good the class is depends entirely on what processes the DM puts in place to adjudicate saves vs. illusions. And really, this is very much true of illusion magic from the M-U as well, since the most consequential sort of illusions are already on the M-U list.</p><p></p><p>I think there is a nice happy medium where illusion magic is very useful but not the "die no save" win button that it was at some tables, and if I was really going to rewrite the whole rules of 1e AD&D it would be on the list to formalize that happy medium into the official rules. That would be vastly more useful than me studying the Illusionist and trying to make it interesting.</p><p></p><p>The biggest problem with illusionist though is that so many things are just immune to illusions, and that remains true even in 3e. It's the main reason you don't play as a PC Enchanter or Necromancer, and instead focus on Abjuration, Divination, or Transmutation. You don't really want to be in a situation where you are super-situational because the monsters you are facing are immune to your schtick. An NPC enchanter or necromancer or illusionist doesn't have that problem, because he's facing the PCs.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 9886062, member: 4937"] Probably not; see my next answer. At this point, no. While I never did play 2e per se, when revising 1e it's always going to be worth asking whether the official 2e revision made sense, and even back in the day we often agreed that they did and adopted them where we liked them. I think before I'd revise the Illusionist, I'd write in some sort of port of 2e's specialty wizards into the game and then let you play Illusionist or Necromancer out of the box without needing a separate class. How good the class is depends entirely on what processes the DM puts in place to adjudicate saves vs. illusions. And really, this is very much true of illusion magic from the M-U as well, since the most consequential sort of illusions are already on the M-U list. I think there is a nice happy medium where illusion magic is very useful but not the "die no save" win button that it was at some tables, and if I was really going to rewrite the whole rules of 1e AD&D it would be on the list to formalize that happy medium into the official rules. That would be vastly more useful than me studying the Illusionist and trying to make it interesting. The biggest problem with illusionist though is that so many things are just immune to illusions, and that remains true even in 3e. It's the main reason you don't play as a PC Enchanter or Necromancer, and instead focus on Abjuration, Divination, or Transmutation. You don't really want to be in a situation where you are super-situational because the monsters you are facing are immune to your schtick. An NPC enchanter or necromancer or illusionist doesn't have that problem, because he's facing the PCs. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Revised and Rebalanced Magic-User for 1e AD&D
Top