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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Revised and Rebalanced Magic-User for 1e AD&D
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9886258" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I think we were pretty close in our thinking about what the thief needs. We had gone very much in the same direction.</p><p></p><p>"As for 100 gp for a first level spell on a scroll", that's very 3e thinking. The 100 gp to make the scroll isn't what I would consider to be the hurdle you have to overcome (though 100 gp is very much more than your starting money most likely). The hurdle is that you'd need to know the formula for making the magic item, and you have to be able to acquire the ingredients which are supposed to be rare and exotic per every example published at the time. So in order for that to be an actually useful benefit, you also have to say that M-U start with the formula for making scrolls of the spells that they know, and you have to have pervasive magic shops where you can stock up on wereboar blood and manticore bile, or else you have to get close to 3e as it was often played and further away from 1e than my 3e game was. </p><p></p><p>Consider actual 1e thought by comparison: <a href="https://1eonline.info/d/mi/charge.htm" target="_blank">Charging Isn't Cheap</a></p><p></p><p>I can see allowing some characters to start with a single 1st level spell on a scroll or allowing 1st level characters to make scrolls of 1st level spells as a special benefit (you take the "Hedge Wizard" NWP, for example), but it generally just doesn't address how much and how pervasively the RAW knocks down M-Us and kicks them while they are down.</p><p></p><p>Sure, we might be able to address the issue by rewriting 80% of M-U spells (or inventing new more consequential ones), but that's more work than addressing character balance directly. A deep dive into character balance has to include the spells, and I've done that for 3e, but that's a ton of work compared to just helping the M-U marginally.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 9886258, member: 4937"] I think we were pretty close in our thinking about what the thief needs. We had gone very much in the same direction. "As for 100 gp for a first level spell on a scroll", that's very 3e thinking. The 100 gp to make the scroll isn't what I would consider to be the hurdle you have to overcome (though 100 gp is very much more than your starting money most likely). The hurdle is that you'd need to know the formula for making the magic item, and you have to be able to acquire the ingredients which are supposed to be rare and exotic per every example published at the time. So in order for that to be an actually useful benefit, you also have to say that M-U start with the formula for making scrolls of the spells that they know, and you have to have pervasive magic shops where you can stock up on wereboar blood and manticore bile, or else you have to get close to 3e as it was often played and further away from 1e than my 3e game was. Consider actual 1e thought by comparison: [URL="https://1eonline.info/d/mi/charge.htm"]Charging Isn't Cheap[/URL] I can see allowing some characters to start with a single 1st level spell on a scroll or allowing 1st level characters to make scrolls of 1st level spells as a special benefit (you take the "Hedge Wizard" NWP, for example), but it generally just doesn't address how much and how pervasively the RAW knocks down M-Us and kicks them while they are down. Sure, we might be able to address the issue by rewriting 80% of M-U spells (or inventing new more consequential ones), but that's more work than addressing character balance directly. A deep dive into character balance has to include the spells, and I've done that for 3e, but that's a ton of work compared to just helping the M-U marginally. [/QUOTE]
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