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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9887087" data-attributes="member: 4937">I discussed earlier the fact that the weirdest thing about the M-U was that they leveled up very slowly when they were the weakest, and then suddenly accelerated to leveling faster than a thief just when they were really beginning to get powerful. I hadn't touched that yet because setting leveling rates on a class is always very touchy as it is easy to hidden nerf a class badly by messing with the level advancement rates.&nbsp; After all, it's not how powerful are you at level X that matters, but what level are you at XP total Y.Hidden in the numbers, Wizard's get levels 6, 7, and 8 almost for free.&nbsp; The three levels in total require about as much XP as you'd expect to spend for one level.&nbsp; This power levels the Wizard up from a slow progressing class through the early slog to being a level or two above every class but the thief (which they match for now).&nbsp; And that brings online 4th and 5th level spells, which while not yet as game changing as the later levels are still pretty impactful and important.And I see why Gygax did what he did, and I'm not happy with the obvious fixes.&nbsp; But as a preview, this is what you end up with if you give Wizard's a &quot;fair&quot; advancement rate, and wow is it ever a hard nerf.Experience&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; M-U&nbsp; Level&nbsp; &nbsp; 4-Sided Dice for Accumulated HD&nbsp; &nbsp; Level Title&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; 90 - 2,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; Prestidigitator&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 02,001 - 4,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; Evoker&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 04,001 - 8,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; Conjurer&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 08,001 - 22,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; Charmer&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 022,001 - 45,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; Soothsayer&nbsp; &nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 045.001 - 90,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; Seer&nbsp; &nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 090,001 - 175,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; Magician&nbsp; &nbsp; 9&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0175,001 - 375,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; Enchanter/Enchantress&nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0375,001- 750,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 9&nbsp; &nbsp; 9&nbsp; &nbsp; Sorcerer/Sorceress&nbsp; &nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0750,001 - 1,125,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; Wizard&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 01,125,001 - 1,500,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp; Wizard (11st level)&nbsp; &nbsp; 13&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 01,500,001 - 1,875,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+1&nbsp; &nbsp; Wizard (12th level)&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 01,875,001 - 2,250,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 13&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+2&nbsp; &nbsp; Wizard (13th level)&nbsp; &nbsp; 15&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 02,250,001 - 2,625,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+3&nbsp; &nbsp; Wizard (14th level)&nbsp; &nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 02,625,001 - 3,000,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 15&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+4&nbsp; &nbsp; Wizard (15th level)&nbsp; &nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 03,000,001 - 3,375,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+5&nbsp; &nbsp; Mage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; 03,750,000 - 4,125,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+6&nbsp; &nbsp; Mage (17th level)&nbsp; &nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 04,125,001 - 4,500,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+7&nbsp; &nbsp; Arch-Mage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; 14,500,001 - 4,875,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+8&nbsp; &nbsp; Arch-Mage (19th level)&nbsp; &nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 14,875,001 - 5,250,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+9&nbsp; &nbsp; Arch-Mage (20th level)&nbsp; &nbsp; 22&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 25,250,001 - 5,625,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+10&nbsp; &nbsp; Arch-Mage (21st level)&nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 25,625,001 - 6,000,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 22&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+11&nbsp; &nbsp; Arch-Mage (22nd level)&nbsp; &nbsp; 24&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; 36,000,001 - 6,375,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+12&nbsp; &nbsp; Arch-Mage (23rd level)&nbsp; &nbsp; 25&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 36,375,001 - 6,750,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 24&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+13&nbsp; &nbsp; Arch-Mage (24th level)&nbsp; &nbsp; 26&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 46,750,001 - 7,125,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 25&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+14&nbsp; &nbsp; Arch-Mage (25th level)&nbsp; &nbsp; 27&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 57,125,001 - 7,500,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 26&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+15&nbsp; &nbsp; Arch-Mage (26th level)&nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 57,125,001 - 7,500,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 27&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+16&nbsp; &nbsp; Arch-Mage (27th level)&nbsp; &nbsp; 29&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 57,500,001 - 7,875,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+17&nbsp; &nbsp; Arch-Mage (28th level)&nbsp; &nbsp; 30&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 67,875,001 - 8,250,000&nbsp; &nbsp; 29&nbsp; &nbsp; 11+18&nbsp; &nbsp; Arch-Mage (29th level)&nbsp; &nbsp; 31&nbsp; &nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; 6</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 9887087, member: 4937"] I discussed earlier the fact that the weirdest thing about the M-U was that they leveled up very slowly when they were the weakest, and then suddenly accelerated to leveling faster than a thief just when they were really beginning to get powerful. I hadn't touched that yet because setting leveling rates on a class is always very touchy as it is easy to hidden nerf a class badly by messing with the level advancement rates. After all, it's not how powerful are you at level X that matters, but what level are you at XP total Y. Hidden in the numbers, Wizard's get levels 6, 7, and 8 almost for free. The three levels in total require about as much XP as you'd expect to spend for one level. This power levels the Wizard up from a slow progressing class through the early slog to being a level or two above every class but the thief (which they match for now). And that brings online 4th and 5th level spells, which while not yet as game changing as the later levels are still pretty impactful and important. And I see why Gygax did what he did, and I'm not happy with the obvious fixes. But as a preview, this is what you end up with if you give Wizard's a "fair" advancement rate, and wow is it ever a hard nerf. Experience M-U Level 4-Sided Dice for Accumulated HD Level Title 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 - 2,000 1 1 Prestidigitator 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2,001 - 4,000 2 2 Evoker 4 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4,001 - 8,000 3 3 Conjurer 5 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8,001 - 22,000 4 4 Charmer 6 3 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 22,001 - 45,000 5 5 Soothsayer 7 4 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 45.001 - 90,000 6 6 Seer 8 4 3 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 90,001 - 175,000 7 7 Magician 9 4 4 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 175,001 - 375,000 8 8 Enchanter/Enchantress 10 4 4 3 2 0 0 0 0 0 375,001- 750,000 9 9 Sorcerer/Sorceress 11 4 4 4 2 1 0 0 0 0 750,001 - 1,125,000 10 10 Wizard 12 4 4 4 3 2 0 0 0 0 1,125,001 - 1,500,000 11 11 Wizard (11st level) 13 5 4 4 4 3 0 0 0 0 1,500,001 - 1,875,000 12 11+1 Wizard (12th level) 14 5 4 4 4 4 1 0 0 0 1,875,001 - 2,250,000 13 11+2 Wizard (13th level) 15 5 5 5 4 4 2 0 0 0 2,250,001 - 2,625,000 14 11+3 Wizard (14th level) 16 5 5 5 5 4 2 1 0 0 2,625,001 - 3,000,000 15 11+4 Wizard (15th level) 17 5 5 5 5 5 3 1 0 0 3,000,001 - 3,375,000 16 11+5 Mage 18 5 5 5 5 5 3 2 1 0 3,750,000 - 4,125,000 17 11+6 Mage (17th level) 19 6 5 5 5 5 3 3 2 0 4,125,001 - 4,500,000 18 11+7 Arch-Mage 20 6 5 5 5 5 3 3 2 1 4,500,001 - 4,875,000 19 11+8 Arch-Mage (19th level) 21 6 6 6 5 5 3 3 3 1 4,875,001 - 5,250,000 20 11+9 Arch-Mage (20th level) 22 6 6 6 5 5 4 3 3 2 5,250,001 - 5,625,000 21 11+10 Arch-Mage (21st level) 23 6 6 6 5 5 4 4 4 2 5,625,001 - 6,000,000 22 11+11 Arch-Mage (22nd level) 24 6 6 6 5 5 5 4 4 3 6,000,001 - 6,375,000 23 11+12 Arch-Mage (23rd level) 25 6 6 6 5 5 5 5 5 3 6,375,001 - 6,750,000 24 11+13 Arch-Mage (24th level) 26 6 6 6 5 5 5 5 5 4 6,750,001 - 7,125,000 25 11+14 Arch-Mage (25th level) 27 6 6 6 5 5 5 5 5 5 7,125,001 - 7,500,000 26 11+15 Arch-Mage (26th level) 28 6 6 6 6 6 5 5 5 5 7,125,001 - 7,500,000 27 11+16 Arch-Mage (27th level) 29 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 5 7,500,001 - 7,875,000 28 11+17 Arch-Mage (28th level) 30 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 7,875,001 - 8,250,000 29 11+18 Arch-Mage (29th level) 31 7 7 7 6 6 6 6 6 6 [/QUOTE]

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