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Message: <blockquote data-quote="OneWinged4ngel" data-source="post: 4463597" data-attributes="member: 37292">The problem is that the flavor is completely wrong.  D&D justs fails at representing bards from any literature other than that *directly based on D&D.*  Seriously, go look at other examples of Bards from fiction, such as, I don't know, anything from Demyx to the Pied Piper (especially his reimagined versions where he does more, like in King Rat).I cannot think of one example of a PC bard that actually does what you just described (standing back there, playing an instrument, inspiring them) in anything outside of D&D and things directly based off D&D or in video games (which are largely based off D&D too, so it really is part of the last category), and in those video games it's *never* a part of the story, it's *only* a part of the mechanics.  They never do that stuff in cutscenes or anything.  And it's usually only in games that have class/job-changing.The thing is, bards are freakin' awesome, and they do freakin' awesome things, but "Inspire Competence" isn't really one of them, and that is the main reason why I think the D&D bard fails horribly.My version of the Bard:  This class is the awesome bards from literature and fiction that is NOT directly based on D&D, not the crappy "I play a lute to inspire people" class. They're more an alternate kind of magician with a dose of the jack. With this class, you can make a seeker of the song whose primordial song of creation conjures a dance of ice and fire, a keeper of ancient tales and histories who can summon the ghosts of legendary heroes to assist him, a cruel soul piper who leads his thralls about with a merry tune, a dirge singer whose enchanting yet haunting voice compels armies to victory and foes to bleed and die, a cultural sage and diplomat who keeps the oral traditions and secret words, or be a waterworks rockstar like Demyx.The wandering minstrel and canny highwayman with a woman in every town along the Kingsroad?  That's... a Rogue that has Perform ranks.An example of bardic fluff from a setting:There is a certain harmony to creation, an order and elegance to the results of the Genesis that created the planescape and spawned the fey. It is the bards that hear (incidentally, as Einstein put it) the music of the spheres, who listen to the echoes of the primordial song of creation. And it is they who learn to play to its tune.They can control thoughts by influencing the memosphere, rippling the immaterial fabric with a perfect note. They can recall the ghosts of the past, hearing the echoes of things that once were. They can make the elements stand up and dance by playing fire's favorite tune. They can even make you hear or feel sounds. Now, some of the D&D writers actually have started to realize that they blew chunks on the bard flavor, and this is reflected by some of the later comments they made and later mechanics they made.  The flavor of Lyric Thaumaturge or Seeker of the Song is a better example of what a Bard should be (too bad the mechanics for the Seeker *sucked ass.*  But that's what Eela's is for.)So... what I'm getting at is that the archetype of the Bard isn't what's makes bards uncool, it's actually specifically WotC's crappy-ass version of bards that makes me want to cry.  If you *don't* include magic, then it *is* just some idiot standing in the back singing.  I thought you said that was what you didn't want?  Dear lord no.  Jack of All Trades gets an award for being one of the worst feats in existence (seriously, there were a coupla threads on "what's the worst feat ever?" and it kept coming up).  It doesn't make you a jack of all trades, it's just crap.  It doesn't do anything to 95% of skills, and the ones it does effect... well great, you can roll when you have zero ranks, so now you can fail at a trained-only skill or two!  Whoop-de-freakin'-doo.  The bard-as-written does a significantly better job in that department with just Bardic Knowledge or the PHB II variant thereof.</blockquote>

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