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<blockquote data-quote="OneWinged4ngel" data-source="post: 4467181" data-attributes="member: 37292">You mean like a Beguiler?&nbsp; The specialist?&nbsp; Oh wait, no, the Beguiler has *more* skills than you because he has Int as a primary stat to invest in, whereas the Bard doesn't.&nbsp; Bummer.&nbsp; This is absolutely meaningless.&nbsp; A 3/4 BAB and a shortsword does not make you a decent fighter at all.&nbsp; What are you gonna do, run up to the Warforged Titan (CR8 encounter) with your level 8 Bard, get AoOed by his 15-foot-reach (and be at almost no health for when he follows up on you with a +16/+11 full attack and dealing what, 6d8+27 (average&nbsp; damage 54)?&nbsp; Or maybe he'll just grapple you, in which case his modifier's almost 30.&nbsp; Or maybe he'll take advantage of Powerful Charge (if they charge you, they'll only miss that 17 AC on a 1, and hit you for 2d8+3d6+13 (average 32.5 damage, and then they'd still be at 15-feet and able to AoO you if you try to approach, only missing on a 1 and doing another 2d8+9 damage (average 18)), Awesome Blow, and Power Attack.&nbsp; What's your HP and AC now?&nbsp; 8d6+8 (average 36hp) and 17 AC (Generous with a mithral breastplate and 16 dex)?&nbsp; Yeah, you're dead in one round, even if he misses somehow with that +16/+16/+11 set of 2d8+9s), and hit his 25 AC with your whopping +2 attack bonus advantage over the party Wizard and make your puny 1d6 damage get eaten by his DR (or, if it's an adamantine shortsword, his 106 hp)?&nbsp; ROFL... good luck buddy.&nbsp; I hope your DM is pulling punches and fudging rolls for you, because otherwise you're going to die.If you cannot hope to survive a round in melee, let alone do any notable damage in melee, you're not half-decent at melee, you just SUCK at it.&nbsp; The bard can become very good in melee, but all those tools are in supplements.Calling people uncivil isn't going to make that any less of a reality.&nbsp; Light armor w/o defensive abilities = you're the most fragile person in the core books.&nbsp; Everyone is harder to kill than you.&nbsp; *Everyone.*&nbsp; Like a Beguiler?&nbsp;Played about 12, give or take (more if you're including me DMing), and seen many, many more.&nbsp; And optimized my share of bard builds in quite a few departments (melee bards, caster bards, singer bards, and so forth).&nbsp; Not that that's at all relevant.&nbsp; I like bards.&nbsp; Also, judging from that fact that you think that a rapier and 3/4 BAB somehow makes you a decent fighter, you haven't played a lot of D&amp;D, let alone Bards.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="OneWinged4ngel, post: 4467181, member: 37292"] You mean like [I]a Beguiler?[/I] The [I]specialist[/I]? Oh wait, no, the Beguiler has *more* skills than you because he has Int as a primary stat to invest in, whereas the Bard doesn't. Bummer. This is absolutely meaningless. A 3/4 BAB and a shortsword does not make you a decent fighter at all. What are you gonna do, run up to the Warforged Titan (CR8 encounter) with your level 8 Bard, get AoOed by his 15-foot-reach (and be at almost no health for when he follows up on you with a +16/+11 full attack and dealing what, 6d8+27 (average damage 54)? Or maybe he'll just grapple you, in which case his modifier's almost 30. Or maybe he'll take advantage of Powerful Charge (if they charge you, they'll only miss that 17 AC on a 1, and hit you for 2d8+3d6+13 (average 32.5 damage, and then they'd still be at 15-feet and able to AoO you if you try to approach, only missing on a 1 and doing another 2d8+9 damage (average 18)), Awesome Blow, and Power Attack. What's your HP and AC now? 8d6+8 (average 36hp) and 17 AC (Generous with a mithral breastplate and 16 dex)? Yeah, you're dead in one round, even if he misses somehow with that +16/+16/+11 set of 2d8+9s), and hit his 25 AC with your whopping +2 attack bonus advantage over the party Wizard and make your puny 1d6 damage get eaten by his DR (or, if it's an adamantine shortsword, his 106 hp)? ROFL... good luck buddy. I hope your DM is pulling punches and fudging rolls for you, because otherwise you're going to die. If you cannot hope to survive a round in melee, let alone do any notable damage in melee, you're not half-decent at melee, you just SUCK at it. The bard can become very good in melee, but all those tools are in supplements. Calling people uncivil isn't going to make that any less of a reality. Light armor w/o defensive abilities = you're the most fragile person in the core books. Everyone is harder to kill than you. *Everyone.* Like [I]a Beguiler?[/I] Played about 12, give or take (more if you're including me DMing), and seen many, many more. And optimized my share of bard builds in quite a few departments (melee bards, caster bards, singer bards, and so forth). Not that that's at all relevant. I like bards. Also, judging from that fact that you think that a rapier and 3/4 BAB somehow makes you a decent fighter, you haven't played a lot of [I]D&D[/I], let alone Bards. [/QUOTE]

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