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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 1110130" data-attributes="member: 326">Hi kerrick mate! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> The answer is easy to understand but convoluted to explain.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> Simply because WotC do not rate CR properly, although the problem really stems from the inability to recognise the proper EL relationship.Instead of balancing CR with Level they set it up to balance against a party of four characters of that level having a moderately difficult encounter. This is okay in itself; but the problems start to arise in that they still maintain 1 NPC Level = 1 CR.So they have this flawed dichotomy wherein they claim a Pit Fiend is as tough an encounter as a single 20th-level NPC but has far greater ECL. So to them an 'effective' level is really a not an effective level - since otherwise it would be added to the monsters CR.You have to rate NPCs and monsters under the same system. 1 CR = 1 Level = 1 ECL (which is the easiest method, and the one I have adopted).Let me try and outline the dichotomy as simply as possible:A Succubus is ECL 12 (according to WotC). But only CR 7.A 12th-level PC is ECL 12. Whereas its also CR 12.Surely an 'Effective Level' should mean just that. But as far as WotC is concerned it isn't.Either ECL 12 should mean CR 12 or it should mean CR 7 - you can't have it both ways! Okay.The problem is again that they don't understand the fundamental relationship between CR and EL. This frightens them into giving lower CR scores than they really should because they rate 1 CR = 1 EL. So anything +9 EL (which in their case wrongly means both CR and Levels) beyond the PCs is supposedly way too powerful - something I proved was totally incorrect. Unfortunately that brings us back to where we were six months ago in factoring ability scores - the problem we found then, was that its both pedantic and penalises PCs who roll high ability scores (essentially factoring/penalising luck) - which isn't really something you want to do.</blockquote>

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