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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Technik4" data-source="post: 663304" data-attributes="member: 7211">No. Narrowminded people are closed to new ideas and cling to the way things have worked. I didn't say you were narrowminded. Regardless, most of this is conjecture without having seen the entire system. I just seem willing to give it a chance whereas you seem like its a non-issue, "it aint broke so dont try and fix it" kinda attitude. Just because it isnt quite broken doesnt mean it as as good as it could be, or even that it is as good as it was intended to be.I think you took me a little too literally (or perhaps I was too literal). Hp are obviously a factor, as are the evasion qualities of his enemies, but by and large the cleric will heal him and the mage will insure he can get to the enemy. Since he will sport the most hp, nearly the highest AC if not the highest AC, and generally does not need a variety of "toys" (just upgrades on his standard equipment) if you take away will saves you make him the strongest character by far. Not that it was really my point.I have seen very rare situations (usually very low level) when the fighter cannot hit the AC with a reasonable amount of ease. At high levels, its almost a guarantee that he will hit with at very least his first attack.As another posted pointed out, sometimes a fighter may need to think outside the box. Its not a computer game, be unorthodox if your main and all of your secondary attacks wont work. My point about wizards vs fighters is that at some point the wizard is out of his 3 highest levels of spells. The dm pops another encounter. The cleric through wands or spells has ensured that everyone is at full hp. The fighter is ready to rock, 100% as if the day had just started. The wizard, is quite a ways from being as he was at the beginning of the day. Hes been using all of his touted "options" all day. He may be reduced to doing more menial work, like buffing characters in case the enemy cast dispel magic, or countering a dispel magic. He is running at sub-optimal level. Even worse for the wizard whose spells didnt even work that day because of SR, resistances, saves, etc. Poor wizard.The fighter goes into every fight at optimum levels assuming his hp is decent. Yeah, there are incorpereal creatures, and guys behind arrow slits. My dm is imaginative to have thought of those things, but regardless those are advantages against the whole party, not just in the fighter's realm. DR is primarily a fighter's concern, though it affects clerics and rogues to an extent as well. The rogue can still try for a flank and hope to get some damage through with a good sneak and maybe a crit, the cleric of course has spells. The fighter can still try for a crit, or as has been pointed out, try a bevy of other things.You flank a dragon for your rogue buddy. You grapple a pit fiend for your rogue buddy. You "take 1 for the team". Youre a fighter, part time asskicker, part time meatshield - full time party member.Technik</blockquote>

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