Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Petrosian" data-source="post: 665605" data-attributes="member: 1149">OK first to deal with the seemingly mandatory hyperbole the pre-designer-dr side has to engage in."useless" has not been a term used by me to describe the effects of the new designer-dr. While some of the pro-designer-dr crowd wants to see those who question the results of this new rule as people whining about overexaggerated penalties, thats not the point i have been arguing at all.So now to deal with the specific "i missed the boat totally" questions you asked.No, none of my players have complained about being useless after SR encounters.  Thank you for asking.However, since no claim of the new designer-dr making anyone feel "useless" has been uttered by me, this question seems as relevent to this discussion as asking me what underwear i am wearing.You seem to want me to defend a position i never took.I wont bite.How do my players, as well as I, handle SR heavy encounters?The less imaginative players/characters throw spells and say "so what". They just slam into the wall hoping enough spells luck out and overcome the barrier. These guys will likely be the ones to eventaully spend feats on improving the spell chances. This is analogous to the simple fighter who just slams away with his main sword ...what was it the pro-designer-dr guy said... and "pray for crits."Fortunately i have none of those routinely in my games as players. Sometimes my players have a bad night tho.  I most often encounter these in my fellow players when i play.The players under me tend to take a different approach. When they prepare (choosing spells for sor or learning spells for others) they often choose spells (or items) that will be unaffected by SR. For example, the sor when facing a potent SR will switch from direct spells to buffing spells for the PCs (haste on fighters, endurances, stoneskins, etc) to enable them to kill it and survive it more quickly. They will also look to effective spells such as fog cloud (if the beastie is using targetted sla) or even dispel magics (if the beastie is buffed or if allies are under holds and the like) and so on. Their basic method, with good preparatory choices made in anticipation of this potential situation occuring, is to get around the SR so that it does not apply. This is analagous to the fighter who totes the haversack of exotic weapons so that he switches to different weapons that gets around the designer-dr instead of rushing uphill so to speak and just trying to bull through it.The non-analogous parts comes from the cost. The sorcerer had to make his tough choice to decide whether to give up a precious spell slot on wall of fog or endurance and so on to help cover heavy sr encounters where the more direct spells are adversely affected. The fighter, on the other hand, has to give up very little given the cost of silvered weapons as an example, to get the golfbag to cover his arse against the designer-dr.Its not a tough choice at all for the fighter. its just a sensible inventory control problem.Giving the sorcerer a more complex and full of options spell choice makes his player typically have more fun. Giving the fighter a tougher inventory and accounting challenge usually wont.Thats part of the downside of designer-dr. Its counters are simple no brainers. No tough choices. Just simple obvious bookkeeping.its a yawner.unless, you are the type who by character design wont gon in for those "gameisms" and in which case for that devotion to character concept... you will pay the price.Again, this seems to be targetting for adverse effects the wrong guys. It appears to be a very inaccurately targetted rule. Unless the goal is to slap those silly role players upside the head and shout "what are you thinking? This is DND! We will have none of that "character" stuff here! Get a clue, play the GAME not the charactergeesh! Some people!"If that is its gaol, it seems dead spot on target.</blockquote>

Verification