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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Petrosian" data-source="post: 666382" data-attributes="member: 1149">I keep hearing this line of reasoning and it keeps baffling me.Remember where this started? People dont like the old DR because magicn weapons are prevalent enough to beat +1 -+3 Dr so often as to make it less than impressive.Yet the presumption seems to be that silver weapons will be hard to come by and that cold iron weapons could be hard to come by and so on.Why is it somehow reasonable to assume that MAGIC weapons exist in quantity enough to beat old style dr but that the rules or the gms wont allow MUNDANE non-magical weapons of special materials to be available?Do you expect wotc to price these things higher than magic weapons so that the dnd standard "availability by price" makes them rarer than magic weapons?No?Then do you think that wotc is going to invent another whole new rarity meter other than price for these special materials weapons alone, leaving everything else such as including MAGIC WEAPONS on the normal "availability by price"?NO?Do you expect the requirements to make silvered weapons or cold iron weapons to be greater than those required for a magic weapon (which currently requires a spellcaster of appropriate feats and spell levels after a masterwork weapon is crafted)?NO?Me neither.in another post...There is a vast and sweeping difference between: taking two sets of info... the rules as they are now and the changes we know of... and analyzing those results (pointing out that silver weapons are cheap and thus not a hardship to acquire) andtaking the same two sets of info and fabricating a third possible set of information (maybe they will also change silvered weapons and make these others all expensive and such) in order to shift that analysis and result to a more favorable conclusion.The former is ANALYSIS.The latter is SPECULATION.If you keep refusing to notice the difference and rely on speculation to make your points, thats a flaw you have to suffer.I will stick with analysis.As for respecting your position, well i give respect where it deserves to be. I don't usually respect speculation because it is of little substance. I respect analysis a lot more. YMMVAs for your speculative ventures into coulda-land...INDEED YOU ARE DEAD SPOT ON...IF wotc changes the cost of silver weapons to make them as expensive or more than magic weapons or even in the ballpark and does the same for cold iron wood, and whatever special materils they feed inti the designer-dr monster, then the golf bag solution will be rendered less sufficient.IF wotc adds in some new rarity factor for availability and in doing so makes these special materials weapons more hard to acquire than magic weapons sufficient to bypass DR are now, then the golf bag solution will not be as possible.There are a ton of IFS by which wotc can maybe make this not work out as it seems it will when we limit ourselves to ANALYSIS of what we know now.But, until we are given some sign that those IFs are anything more than just wishes and hopes, those ifs and the "conclusions" derived from them fall squarely in the realm of SPECULATION not ANALYSIS.And for one final note...if, in order to make designer DR work, wotc needs to apply these increased rarity issues, then WHY wouldn't doing the same thing for magic weapons work without needing the designer-dr?If the answer lies in restricting access by availability to weapons which bypass designer-dr, if that remains a key component to getting it to produce desirable results, then why is it not possible to just restrict access to MAGIC weapons?Doesn't it make more sense to make magic weapons less frequent or available than silvered weapons rather than the reverse?Doesn;t it make sense to not try and finagle "silver is rare so getting enough silver to make a magic dagger is hard" to control anti-designer-dr silver daggers when several spells such as holy water and iirc consecrate require 5 lb of silver for each casting?If you plan on saying NO when your fighter seeks a few lbs of silver for his dagger are you also going to say NO when the cleric seeks 5lb bags of silver for his second level spells? or is silver for spells available because you dont need to worry about it trumping designer-dr?The rarity argument does not have any substance unless and until wotc gives us some indication that it will be done that way... particluarly in light of how it runs contrary to the various examples already in the books.YMMV and cleary does.</blockquote>

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