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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4849226" data-attributes="member: 4937">I would go even further than that.&nbsp; Improved Grab is only for creatures that are inherently 'sticky'.&nbsp; Any sort of grab which involved gripping and wrapping around the target is just a normal grab.&nbsp; After all, humans may not be able to compete with animals in most things, but they have far better than average ability to grab, grip, and grapple.&nbsp; With most creatures given 'improved grab' you could on the same basis argue people have 'improved grab'.&nbsp; Another thing I've consider is simply getting rid of the absolute advantage of 'improved grab' and simply making it a dodge bonus to your AC when resisting AoO incurred when making a grapple.&nbsp; I hate absolute advantages, because they provoke creating things like 'Improved Grab Resistance: You can make AoO's even against things with Improved Grab'.I agree, but I went about it in a different way.&nbsp; I ruled that a strength bonus did not apply to a touch attack.&nbsp; If you wanted to reduce the grapple bonus, my thought is that when something grapples something more than one size smaller than itself, it can only apply half of its strength bonus to the grapple check - its just hard to get a grip on something.&nbsp; Might be harder to calculate on the fly though, so it might be worth just going with the flat adjustment you suggest.&nbsp; I'd be curious to see some comparisons between the two in practical cases.How old school.Of course, this just provokes thoughts of generalized called shot rules.I like the thought but I'm not sure I like the implementation.&nbsp; It's going to be very hard for people to grapple someone without getting a full attack with a dagger and little else for their trouble.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 4849226, member: 4937"] I would go even further than that. Improved Grab is only for creatures that are inherently 'sticky'. Any sort of grab which involved gripping and wrapping around the target is just a normal grab. After all, humans may not be able to compete with animals in most things, but they have far better than average ability to grab, grip, and grapple. With most creatures given 'improved grab' you could on the same basis argue people have 'improved grab'. Another thing I've consider is simply getting rid of the absolute advantage of 'improved grab' and simply making it a dodge bonus to your AC when resisting AoO incurred when making a grapple. I hate absolute advantages, because they provoke creating things like 'Improved Grab Resistance: You can make AoO's even against things with Improved Grab'. I agree, but I went about it in a different way. I ruled that a strength bonus did not apply to a touch attack. If you wanted to reduce the grapple bonus, my thought is that when something grapples something more than one size smaller than itself, it can only apply half of its strength bonus to the grapple check - its just hard to get a grip on something. Might be harder to calculate on the fly though, so it might be worth just going with the flat adjustment you suggest. I'd be curious to see some comparisons between the two in practical cases. How old school. Of course, this just provokes thoughts of generalized called shot rules. I like the thought but I'm not sure I like the implementation. It's going to be very hard for people to grapple someone without getting a full attack with a dagger and little else for their trouble. [/QUOTE]

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