(Revised) Paladins and Rangers: Need help balancing giving spells at first level

[Greg K]

[Edit: Originally, as I posted later in this thread, my original plan several months ago was to use the bard list. However, when I went to check the bard list last night, I accidently misread the spells known as spells per day and didn't realize it. Therefore, I decided to go with a progression using 3.0 multiclassing at first level using cleric or druid. however, after reading smootrk's post, I went back and reread the bard spell list and saw my mistake. So, I'm back to bard progression.]


I could definitely use some help in balancing this idea

I have never been satisfied with the idea that paladins and rangers have to wait several levels before gaining spells. If a class gains spells, I think it should either receive spells at first level or the class should be a PrC. Now, I am aware that Unearthed Arcana has prestige classes for both the Paladin and Ranger. However, I want to keep the Paladin and Ranger as base classes and have wanted for a long time to give them an improved spell progress so that they start gaining spells at first level and use their class level as caster level.


The idea
The Paladin and Ranger classes would use the Bard progression. This of course would mean reassigning spell levels and probably adding in new spells.

The Trade
For Paladins, I am considering the removal of Detect Evil, Lay hands, and Cure Disease as they duplicate spells and the paladin would be receiving spells earlier and more of them. I would also remove the mount.


For Rangers, I want to remove the Animal Companion.

Here is a comparison of the variant Paladin and Ranger compared to the Bard and Myrmidon(from AEG).

Class________Bard_________ Myrmidon(AEG)__Paladin_____Ranger
BAB________ Medium_______Medium______ Good______Good
Armor_____- Light _________Medium______ Heavy______Light
hd________ d6 ___________d8___________d10_________d8
Skill points__ 6/level________2/level________2/level______6/level
Saves_____ 2/good________1/good _______1/good______2/good
abilities __ 1. BaMusic_____ Bonus Feats____Aura Courage_ Favored Enemy
_________ 2. BaKnowledge______ - ________Divine Grace_ _Track
_________3.Spontaneous Magic__ - ________Divine Health__ Wild Empathy
____________ - _______________ - _______ Turn Undead__Combat Style
____________ -________________ - ________Smite Evil_____Endurance
____________ - _______________ - ___________ -__________Woodland Stride
____________ _ _______________ - ___________ -___________Swift Tracker
____________ - _______________ - ___________ -___________Evasion
____________ - _______________ - ___________ -___________Camoflauge
____________ - _______________ - ___________ -___________Hide in Plain Sight

Does the Ranger still have too much even with removal of the Animal Companion? At first glance I think so, but then many of the class abilities are very specialized to outdoors and non combat situations.

Is the Paladin balanced depsite retaining the Good BAB, Heavy Armor and d10hd?

Again, any help on balancing both of these classes with the following new spell progression would be helpful. Thank you ahead of time for any help.

 

[smootrk]

use the Bard Spell progression, or maybe the Hexblade or Duskblade progression.

One problem I can see is that you will need to redo the Paladin & Ranger Spell list completely. Many of their exclusive spells (and spells borrowed from other lists) were designed to grant certain powerful spells in a lower level spell slot than if the class had a full progression. Many spells on the list would need to be re-leveled.

 

[Greg K]

use the Bard Spell progression, or maybe the Hexblade or Duskblade progression.

Thanks.

I originally had planned on the Bard progression when I first considered this several months ago. I remember my original plan was only zero level spells at first level and eventually they would receive sixth level spells (actually, the one that I posted should have provided the opportunity at 20th level provided the character had a high enough stat for bonuses). However, when I looked over the bard's spells per day progression last night, I read the wrong chart. I don't know how it happened, but I looked at the spells known list.

So, yes, I definitely must use the bard list. I am going to edit this now.