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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7472245" data-attributes="member: 15700">Ah, I see.&nbsp; It appears that you're assuming that people who played D&amp;D in the 80s were wargamers.&nbsp; That's not true.&nbsp; Only the original group in the mid 70s.&nbsp; I'm not a wargamer, and I started in 1981.&nbsp; No one I played with were wargamers either.&nbsp; D&amp;D couldn't have grown exponentially if it only had wargamers playing in the 80s.&nbsp; D&amp;D had it's greatest increase in popularity ratio wise in the 80s, and only few of those were due to wargaming.&nbsp; Most of us wanted to recreate our own adventures and stories we read about for years, or saw in TV or the movies.So again, I don't see any evidence that modern gamers care more about stories than we did back in the day.&nbsp; Streaming isn't it.&nbsp; Your assumption about wargamers is not accurate.&nbsp; And in fact, I'll say the evidence may go the other way, because the mechanics of the best selling edition (basic) didn't lend to crunch at all.&nbsp; Rather due to the lack of mechanics, larger parts were narrative.&nbsp; How many discussions over the year by grognards said they preferred how you would narrate how you opened the door, or picked the lock, or explored the dungeon rather than just make a roll for it?&nbsp; Or narrated how you would jump to the chandelier and swing over your opponent instead of needing a hard coded power/maneuver in order to do it? Also, Rolemaster is rules heavy, and has been around forever, but has only ever had a fraction of the players.&nbsp; If gamers cared more about mechanics in the early 80s than the actual stories, you'd think more would have played rolemaster.&nbsp; So no.&nbsp; In fact, all evidence seems to point that the huge growth of D&amp;D in the 80s was because the non-wargamers joined, and liked to have the storytelling aspect as a huge factor.&nbsp; Narration over rules.&nbsp; Rulings over rules.In fact, your whole line if reasoning seems off because 5e went back to how old school D&amp;D was played (rulings and narration over rules).&nbsp; So it seems odd that you'd argue that players today care more about a feature that 5e intentionally replicated from older games because it was such a prominent feature of those said old school games.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 7472245, member: 15700"] Ah, I see. It appears that you're assuming that people who played D&D in the 80s were wargamers. That's not true. Only the original group in the mid 70s. I'm not a wargamer, and I started in 1981. No one I played with were wargamers either. D&D couldn't have grown exponentially if it only had wargamers playing in the 80s. D&D had it's greatest increase in popularity ratio wise in the 80s, and only few of those were due to wargaming. Most of us wanted to recreate our own adventures and stories we read about for years, or saw in TV or the movies. So again, I don't see any evidence that modern gamers care more about stories than we did back in the day. Streaming isn't it. Your assumption about wargamers is not accurate. And in fact, I'll say the evidence may go the other way, because the mechanics of the best selling edition (basic) didn't lend to crunch at all. Rather due to the [I]lack [/I]of mechanics, larger parts were narrative. How many discussions over the year by grognards said they preferred how you would narrate how you opened the door, or picked the lock, or explored the dungeon rather than just make a roll for it? Or narrated how you would jump to the chandelier and swing over your opponent instead of needing a hard coded power/maneuver in order to do it? Also, Rolemaster is rules heavy, and has been around forever, but has only ever had a fraction of the players. If gamers cared more about mechanics in the early 80s than the actual stories, you'd think more would have played rolemaster. So no. In fact, all evidence seems to point that the huge growth of D&D in the 80s was because the non-wargamers joined, and liked to have the storytelling aspect as a huge factor. Narration over rules. Rulings over rules. In fact, your whole line if reasoning seems off because 5e went [I]back [/I]to how old school D&D was played (rulings and narration over rules). So it seems odd that you'd argue that players today care more about a feature that 5e intentionally replicated from older games because it was such a prominent feature of those said old school games. [/QUOTE]

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