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<blockquote data-quote="Shard O'Glase" data-source="post: 953046" data-attributes="member: 1134">I don't disagree that they should be more effective, but I do disagree with the reason.&nbsp; Its way too easy to get anyone in thump on them range for the range benefit to be a real damage avoider so maybe mellee is slighty worse of meat grinder wise but not by much IMO. &nbsp;But I do think the ability to shoot at range helps in these areas and so mellee combat should be suitable compensated.1.&nbsp; more full attacks.2.&nbsp; range means can hit foes in hard to get to places, like behind arrow slits, in the air, across a chasm etc.I've complained about almost all of those especially uncanny dodge.&nbsp; And its because I hate absolutes. I recognize there are other ways to get sneak attacks but its moronic beyond all comprehsion to me that a 20th level rogue with skill focus hide and sneak, some two-fer skill&nbsp; bonus feat on these skills, the skills maxed out, and some nice big skill bonus items for both skills, still can't get a total drop on a barbarian level 2 or rogue level 3.It should of provided a 2nd check with some scaling bonus to spot and listen, and if this time you notice them you can't act in the surprise round but you aren't flat footed.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Shard O'Glase, post: 953046, member: 1134"] I don't disagree that they should be more effective, but I do disagree with the reason. Its way too easy to get anyone in thump on them range for the range benefit to be a real damage avoider so maybe mellee is slighty worse of meat grinder wise but not by much IMO. But I do think the ability to shoot at range helps in these areas and so mellee combat should be suitable compensated. 1. more full attacks. 2. range means can hit foes in hard to get to places, like behind arrow slits, in the air, across a chasm etc. [B][/B] I've complained about almost all of those especially uncanny dodge. And its because I hate absolutes. I recognize there are other ways to get sneak attacks but its moronic beyond all comprehsion to me that a 20th level rogue with skill focus hide and sneak, some two-fer skill bonus feat on these skills, the skills maxed out, and some nice big skill bonus items for both skills, still can't get a total drop on a barbarian level 2 or rogue level 3. It should of provided a 2nd check with some scaling bonus to spot and listen, and if this time you notice them you can't act in the surprise round but you aren't flat footed. [/QUOTE]

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