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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 4432144" data-attributes="member: 18280">Okay, first off, thanks to everyone who responded!Some notes:(1)&nbsp; I know that not everyone is a big fan of sandbox play, or play with a slower levelling curve.&nbsp; Granted.&nbsp; However, I think that these things really are design goals that I have.&nbsp; I am hoping to really extend play from levels 3 to 8, turning this into a sort of &quot;heroic&quot; tier.(2)&nbsp; Having given a lot of thought to the responses about balance, I am not even sure that 3.x gives a realistic idea of the average character of X level for any given group.&nbsp; Depending upon feat and skill selection, as well as magic item selection, these characters can vary quite a bit in terms of actual power.&nbsp; The many threads here and abroad about character optimization show (to me) that there is no set &quot;average character&quot;.I do know that some players of 1e and 2e had problems with some materials from the UA or the various kit books.&nbsp; As a DM, though, I never had problems with these because I designed sandbox settings in which an uber-tank or a swashbuckler wasn't always the optimal choice.&nbsp; Indeed, the wider the &quot;world&quot; in which play takes place -- and the more options for &quot;winning&quot; that world has -- the harder it is to &quot;optimize&quot;.When people begin talking about balance, they start with the idea that all characters at level X are roughly equal (or, in earlier editions, all characters with XP Y).&nbsp; But, especially in a game with complex builds like 3.x, this can quickly be proven untrue.&nbsp; I cannot recall how many threads discuss &quot;dipping&quot; a level, both as means to power, and as means to ultimately prevent charaters from reaching full power.&nbsp; Does anyone believe that there is an average level 16 character?&nbsp; I would say that the oft-observed failure of the CR system at high levels is due to the illusory nature of the &quot;baseline&quot;.(3)&nbsp; WP/VP:&nbsp; I am no fan of the idea of healing surges and vancian fighters.&nbsp; What other options have people used to decouple encounter hp from daily hp?RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 4432144, member: 18280"] Okay, first off, thanks to everyone who responded! Some notes: (1) I know that not everyone is a big fan of sandbox play, or play with a slower levelling curve. Granted. However, I think that these things really are design goals that I have. I am hoping to really extend play from levels 3 to 8, turning this into a sort of "heroic" tier. (2) Having given a lot of thought to the responses about balance, I am not even sure that 3.x gives a realistic idea of the average character of X level for any given group. Depending upon feat and skill selection, as well as magic item selection, these characters can vary quite a bit in terms of actual power. The many threads here and abroad about character optimization show (to me) that there is no set "average character". I do know that some players of 1e and 2e had problems with some materials from the UA or the various kit books. As a DM, though, I never had problems with these because I designed sandbox settings in which an uber-tank or a swashbuckler wasn't always the optimal choice. Indeed, the wider the "world" in which play takes place -- and the more options for "winning" that world has -- the harder it is to "optimize". When people begin talking about balance, they start with the idea that all characters at level X are roughly equal (or, in earlier editions, all characters with XP Y). But, especially in a game with complex builds like 3.x, this can quickly be proven untrue. I cannot recall how many threads discuss "dipping" a level, both as means to power, and as means to ultimately prevent charaters from reaching full power. Does anyone believe that there is an average level 16 character? I would say that the oft-observed failure of the CR system at high levels is due to the illusory nature of the "baseline". (3) WP/VP: I am no fan of the idea of healing surges and vancian fighters. What other options have people used to decouple encounter hp from daily hp? RC [/QUOTE]

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