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<blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 5026552" data-attributes="member: 43019"><p>Depending on the campaign. YES. </p><p></p><p>The egregious ones, of course. But, HERO is riddled with warnings with good reason, and even if you don't use any of those you can still sit down and have one person in a group with a 16d attack standard and another with a 2d standard, or have someone who needs to be hit by 21 body to notice an attack at all and another who potentially dies from 12. Depending on the game you're looking for those are strengths or weaknesses, but if I'm choosing to play a level-based game (which I am, when I play D&D), I don't want to deal with point buy's problems.</p><p></p><p>So, yes, I'm quite happy that folks can't play Balors in 4e, cause frankly I didn't like most of 3e's attempts at handling monster races. And I've done enough GURPs and HERO (especially GURPs) that I don't think they do them all that well either. So, an argument that 4E is missing something that all these games have done well, I'm not buying it. They've had possible solutions, sure. And if you really like any particular solution, more power to you. I don't think that, for instance, saying that a character should be able to use weapons that do more damage than anyone else because they're overconfident, have a fear of sea monkeys or enjoy killing people is particularly warranted. Similarly, I'm okay with things not doing more damage because you're using a particular unique indestructible weapon, or can only use it at full power, or require a steady diet of chocolate. </p><p></p><p>I'm very happy to go 'Bugbear isn't a PC race so I don't have to care how it works' and 'Hey, Githzerai PCs get a bunch of minor bonuses to make them more interesting than the MM version' and rest easy knowing that _someone_ inspected them for validity as PC races and figured they wouldn't harm things, either too strong or too weak.</p><p></p><p>And if I want to play a Minotaur, I can just ask a DM if it's okay for their campaign and go ahead, without worrying if it's balanced. </p><p></p><p>Siloing isn't supposed to prevent this phenomenon. What siloing lets you do is make RP choices without impacting your combat choices. Like Phantom Steed or Tongues instead of Fireball. Or choosing to be a master brewer without impacting your guns and acrobatics skills. And I so wish there was even more than there already is in 4e, splitting utility powers into combat vs non and feats into combat vs non.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="keterys, post: 5026552, member: 43019"] Depending on the campaign. YES. The egregious ones, of course. But, HERO is riddled with warnings with good reason, and even if you don't use any of those you can still sit down and have one person in a group with a 16d attack standard and another with a 2d standard, or have someone who needs to be hit by 21 body to notice an attack at all and another who potentially dies from 12. Depending on the game you're looking for those are strengths or weaknesses, but if I'm choosing to play a level-based game (which I am, when I play D&D), I don't want to deal with point buy's problems. So, yes, I'm quite happy that folks can't play Balors in 4e, cause frankly I didn't like most of 3e's attempts at handling monster races. And I've done enough GURPs and HERO (especially GURPs) that I don't think they do them all that well either. So, an argument that 4E is missing something that all these games have done well, I'm not buying it. They've had possible solutions, sure. And if you really like any particular solution, more power to you. I don't think that, for instance, saying that a character should be able to use weapons that do more damage than anyone else because they're overconfident, have a fear of sea monkeys or enjoy killing people is particularly warranted. Similarly, I'm okay with things not doing more damage because you're using a particular unique indestructible weapon, or can only use it at full power, or require a steady diet of chocolate. I'm very happy to go 'Bugbear isn't a PC race so I don't have to care how it works' and 'Hey, Githzerai PCs get a bunch of minor bonuses to make them more interesting than the MM version' and rest easy knowing that _someone_ inspected them for validity as PC races and figured they wouldn't harm things, either too strong or too weak. And if I want to play a Minotaur, I can just ask a DM if it's okay for their campaign and go ahead, without worrying if it's balanced. Siloing isn't supposed to prevent this phenomenon. What siloing lets you do is make RP choices without impacting your combat choices. Like Phantom Steed or Tongues instead of Fireball. Or choosing to be a master brewer without impacting your guns and acrobatics skills. And I so wish there was even more than there already is in 4e, splitting utility powers into combat vs non and feats into combat vs non. [/QUOTE]
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