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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5037271" data-attributes="member: 61155">Yeah, but I just don't see scenarios coming up where people 'accidently' take the feat and have their character's race change without their intention to do so. That really does just strike me as a contrived scenario. Either the character is already playing a Dusk Elf, and the feat just enhances that, or they suddenly want to be a Dusk Elf, and they work with the DM to figure out how to explain that. Or they are playing a game that is entirely about min/maxing, and they take the feat without worrying about any logical inconsistency.   Do you still consider your character a Dusk Elf? That's the question. Why are you retraining it out? Because you wish to no longer be a Dusk Elf, and have some reason for it? Or do you wish to remain a Dusk Elf and just want to use the feat slot elsewhere? The thing is, the feat is intended to represent a way to mechanically enhance the background choices you have already made, or are in the process of making. This isn't the first such feat to do so. Feats that build on regional backgrounds from FR, the Wood Elf/Wild Elf/Sun Elf/Moon Elf feats, the Dhampyr or Deva bloodline feats, the Vistani feat, etc.  With all of these, the idea isn't that taking the feat alters your character to something new. No, the idea is that you are altering your character, and the feat provides a way to represent that mechanically. You can declare yourself a Vistani before taking the Vistani feat! And, similarly, if you take the feat and later retrain it out, you don't 'lose' your Vistani ancestry, unless you specifically want to change your character background and are working with the DM to do so.  Yes, sometimes you might lose a power or ability that it would seem strange to suddenly lack - but all retraining carries that element. Why am I suddenly less skilled with a sword when I train out my proficiency? Is that any stranger than your concerns? And if we can accept that level of character alteration for the benefit of character mutability, why is it not acceptable elsewhere? If you really find it an issue, the rules have an excellent solution for you: Backgrounds. Create a Background: Dusk Elf. Make it a prerequisite for the Dusk Elf Feat. Same for the Vistani, and Dhampyr, and all the others. This way, the character doesn't have to take the feat at level 1 (when doing so might be a burdensome cost) - however, they do have to make that racial or cultural choice at level 1, and will have their character defined as such whether they have the feat or not. And they aren't even mechanically limited by doing so, since you are allowed to choose multiple background options, you just only get mechanical benefits from one.  So you can be a Dusk Elf Dhampyr from Luskan who is a Traveling Missionary, and have the Traveling Missionary benefit, but still qualify to take the Dusk Elf feat and the Dhampyr feats and any Luskan feats. Problem solved.  I think the rules are written as they are on the assumption that characters will be writing in those background elements without needing to define them by mechanical means (especially since backgrounds remain an optional rule). And as I tried to demonstrate above, I really don't see any legitimate possible scenarios in which a character takes or trains out the feat and finds themself forced into having their race change in the process of doing so...  After rereading it, I felt it might have come across as more harsh than I intended, so decided to veer on the side of politeness. Should have stuck with my first instinct! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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