Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Revisiting 4th Edition
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 6076327" data-attributes="member: 1165"><p>As of MM3/DMG2, monster damage has been standardized. (A typical single-target at-will would deal 8 + level on average; minion damage has also been standardized.)</p><p></p><p>I noticed a few creatures in the MM1 actually did the same damage prior to the changes. Often these were viewed as OP at the start. (In Keep on the Shadowfell, guard drakes killed half my party in one encounter. They were certainly doing much higher damage than what was "standard" in 2008.)</p><p></p><p>Defenses have also been standardized (generally lower), and solo design is far better.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>While Reavers tends to have a good rep, skill challenges can be poorly-written. Fortunately DMs can come up some on the fly, provided they have the new skill DC rules (which have lower DCs).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See, I knew there was a reason encounter social powers existed <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Random encounters need to be handled differently in 4e. See, random encounters are a bad idea now, but <strong>pacing</strong> encounters aren't. (Therefore I'm more likely to use "random" encounters in a city or dungeon, where PCs might feel an urge to rest too early.) In the wilderness, a random encounter is a speed bump unless it's a level +4 or more encounter, since you're not likely to keep facing random encounters. Unless the PCs are wandering through a jungle filled with cannibalistic halflings, which is something I did once <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>4e has a lot of immediate reaction/interrupt powers, plus free action powers, which can slow the game down. (Option paralysis when making a creature is not a big deal, but it's a big deal if it's affecting you when you need to think quickly.)</p><p></p><p>Ironically, Essentials uses lots of triggered powers and yet it goes fast. This is mainly because your only option might be "do I use Power Strike now? Yes/no?"</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I <strong>hate</strong> the Character Builder.</p><p></p><p>For starters, players should learn to make a character with pen and paper before they start using the CB. Alas, I didn't insist on that with my group (not being aware of this issue), and now I have players who think inherent bonuses are "too complicate" to use without computerized assistance.</p><p></p><p>Making a 1st-level character is not hard, and no new player should be presented with 5th-level PC or something like that (although sometimes that's unavoidable).</p><p></p><p>The inability to implant house rules is just another mark against the Character Builder. One of my players played a thri-kreen battlemind in my Dark Sun campaign a while back, and the CB had trouble with some aspect of the rules (apparently it could handle the thri-kreen, but not the Dark Sun stuff, odd because I don't think the thri-kreen was available prior to Dark Sun's release).</p><p></p><p>Another thing I hate about the Character Builder is how it interacts with optimization boards, and the vast amount of splat books. I think the CB cost WotC a lot of splat sales, especially those before they discontinued the free offline version in 2010. Why buy a book when the CB already has it? (Maybe the CB was never available for free legally, I don't know because I don't use the program.)</p><p></p><p>In 3rd Edition, players were limited in the kind of splatbooks they could use. DMs could say they're not using so-and-so book, or the player has to own the book and show it to them, etc. It didn't matter if you found something on an op board or have a lot of PDFs, if it required too many sources, you couldn't use it.</p><p></p><p>In my group, even the more responsible players keep finding they accidentally used a power from some banned source in their build. (The barbarian player is like this, and always points it out when he notices.) I know there's some filter, but either it doesn't work properly or it's too hard to use. I think only one player has ever actually figured this out. (Said thri-kreen PC player.)</p><p></p><p>Since the glut of splats means inevitable broken combos when you use the Race from Book A with the power from Book B and the item from Book C plus this feat from Book D that was obviously meant to be used with Class E from Book F but they forgot to limit it... sigh. 4e is a lot more balanced than 3.x so it's not so bad, but crap gets through the cracks, like avengers with that stupid AC-boosting monk feat. (Why isn't that feat just a monk class ability? Or is that a feat tax for monks?) I use very few AC-targeting monsters these days.</p><p></p><p>I doubt anyone from WotC is reading this post, but I don't think the problem with the CB was its functionality, but its basic purpose.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="(Psi)SeveredHead, post: 6076327, member: 1165"] As of MM3/DMG2, monster damage has been standardized. (A typical single-target at-will would deal 8 + level on average; minion damage has also been standardized.) I noticed a few creatures in the MM1 actually did the same damage prior to the changes. Often these were viewed as OP at the start. (In Keep on the Shadowfell, guard drakes killed half my party in one encounter. They were certainly doing much higher damage than what was "standard" in 2008.) Defenses have also been standardized (generally lower), and solo design is far better. While Reavers tends to have a good rep, skill challenges can be poorly-written. Fortunately DMs can come up some on the fly, provided they have the new skill DC rules (which have lower DCs). See, I knew there was a reason encounter social powers existed :) Random encounters need to be handled differently in 4e. See, random encounters are a bad idea now, but [b]pacing[/b] encounters aren't. (Therefore I'm more likely to use "random" encounters in a city or dungeon, where PCs might feel an urge to rest too early.) In the wilderness, a random encounter is a speed bump unless it's a level +4 or more encounter, since you're not likely to keep facing random encounters. Unless the PCs are wandering through a jungle filled with cannibalistic halflings, which is something I did once :) 4e has a lot of immediate reaction/interrupt powers, plus free action powers, which can slow the game down. (Option paralysis when making a creature is not a big deal, but it's a big deal if it's affecting you when you need to think quickly.) Ironically, Essentials uses lots of triggered powers and yet it goes fast. This is mainly because your only option might be "do I use Power Strike now? Yes/no?" I [b]hate[/b] the Character Builder. For starters, players should learn to make a character with pen and paper before they start using the CB. Alas, I didn't insist on that with my group (not being aware of this issue), and now I have players who think inherent bonuses are "too complicate" to use without computerized assistance. Making a 1st-level character is not hard, and no new player should be presented with 5th-level PC or something like that (although sometimes that's unavoidable). The inability to implant house rules is just another mark against the Character Builder. One of my players played a thri-kreen battlemind in my Dark Sun campaign a while back, and the CB had trouble with some aspect of the rules (apparently it could handle the thri-kreen, but not the Dark Sun stuff, odd because I don't think the thri-kreen was available prior to Dark Sun's release). Another thing I hate about the Character Builder is how it interacts with optimization boards, and the vast amount of splat books. I think the CB cost WotC a lot of splat sales, especially those before they discontinued the free offline version in 2010. Why buy a book when the CB already has it? (Maybe the CB was never available for free legally, I don't know because I don't use the program.) In 3rd Edition, players were limited in the kind of splatbooks they could use. DMs could say they're not using so-and-so book, or the player has to own the book and show it to them, etc. It didn't matter if you found something on an op board or have a lot of PDFs, if it required too many sources, you couldn't use it. In my group, even the more responsible players keep finding they accidentally used a power from some banned source in their build. (The barbarian player is like this, and always points it out when he notices.) I know there's some filter, but either it doesn't work properly or it's too hard to use. I think only one player has ever actually figured this out. (Said thri-kreen PC player.) Since the glut of splats means inevitable broken combos when you use the Race from Book A with the power from Book B and the item from Book C plus this feat from Book D that was obviously meant to be used with Class E from Book F but they forgot to limit it... sigh. 4e is a lot more balanced than 3.x so it's not so bad, but crap gets through the cracks, like avengers with that stupid AC-boosting monk feat. (Why isn't that feat just a monk class ability? Or is that a feat tax for monks?) I use very few AC-targeting monsters these days. I doubt anyone from WotC is reading this post, but I don't think the problem with the CB was its functionality, but its basic purpose. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Revisiting 4th Edition
Top