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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jester47" data-source="post: 1100623" data-attributes="member: 2238">Greyhawk, wheew.  Whats the big turnoff?Where to begin?  Lets start at presentation.  We have a really cool map, so that is not the problem.  We have detailed locations and regions, so that can't be it either.  We have cool gods.  So we are all set there.  Where greyhawk fails in my opinion is not any of these.  It is the canon that shoots the setting in the head.  (pun intended)  Largely because I think at some level it does not make sense.  I think this is because the the world comes off as very political.  The history is very specific.  But there are not small little things to develop like you see in the Wilderlands CS or FRCS.  We are given either everything, or nothing.  And I think that is one of the big failings of Greyhawk.  Developmental discord between generations of developers makes it even harder to set up as a really useful setting because the already broken canon gets even more broken by dicrepencies, changes, and developers going into left field.  Furthermore, the setting is broken in that no one really knows what it is.  If you listen to Gary Gygax, the setting is full of magic.  If you listen to others, its low magic.  If you listen to one its high fantasy, if you listen to another its supposed to be gritty.  I have heard constant contradicitons about greyhawk and what kind of world people think it is supposed to be.  This is the other problem, no one can agree on what is "Greyhawk."  Apparently, greyhawk is what you want or need it to be.  So my advice is this:  If you want to use greyhawk, go back to the first products.  Pay no attention to anything after the first boxed set and some of the original modules.  As for the new gazetteers, I would say that the D&D Gazetteer combined with the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer (only paying attention to pp.17-21 of Ch.4) should give you a pretty decent campaign setting.  Even if it is not officially supported. However- after looking it over, I have found that Kenzers Kingdoms of Kalamar comes off as a very useable CS and has a very Greyhawk feel to it, whatever that might be.  If you want a supported Greyhawk, I would highly recommend it. Aaron.</blockquote>

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