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<blockquote data-quote="woodelf" data-source="post: 1184712" data-attributes="member: 10201">Not sure what you mean by &quot;FASA&quot; as a system--they've published quite a few different games--and i'd contest the claim that D&amp;D3E is any simpler than Coda--i'd say they're equivalent.But GURPS and Hero System are generally agreed to be two of the more-complex RPGs ever, with only the likes of Aftermath being in a more-complex category.&nbsp; I'd say that D&amp;D3E is empirically on the &quot;rules heavy&quot; side of the midpoint, at the very least--come on, this is a game with roughly 800pp of rules (when condensed to 9/8pt type--i just finished formatting a beautiful version of the 3.5 SRD, which is pretty much all rules, no flavor text).&nbsp; Or, put another way, the combat chapter in D&amp;d3E is 36pp, and that does'nt even include all the rules in the magic and skills chapters, not to mention the bits scattered all over the classes, feats, and other chapters.&nbsp; GURPS basic combat does pretty much everything D&amp;D3E combat does, in 6pp (plus another 5 for healing).&nbsp; Even the advanced combat, which gives you a *lot* more bang for your buck, only takes another 25pp.&nbsp; Tri-Stat dX manages as much combat detail as D&amp;D3E, and maybe a few more options, in ~11pp.&nbsp; &nbsp; And *all* the rules in Over the Edge, including character creation and copious examples, can fit in 2 pages of reasonable-size type. The line between &quot;rules light&quot; and &quot;rules heavy&quot; is fuzzy and much-debated.&nbsp; But D&amp;D3E is nowhere near it--it's clearly on the &quot;heavy&quot; side.&nbsp; &quot;Light&quot; games are represented by such fare as Over the Edge, the Window, Story Engine, maybe original D&amp;D, simple Fudge, Everway, Amber DRP.&nbsp; Things like some versions of Storyteller probably sit near the midpoint.&nbsp; Not D&amp;D3E.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="woodelf, post: 1184712, member: 10201"] Not sure what you mean by "FASA" as a system--they've published quite a few different games--and i'd contest the claim that D&D3E is any simpler than Coda--i'd say they're equivalent. But GURPS and Hero System are generally agreed to be two of the more-complex RPGs ever, with only the likes of Aftermath being in a more-complex category. I'd say that D&D3E is empirically on the "rules heavy" side of the midpoint, at the very least--come on, this is a game with roughly 800pp of rules (when condensed to 9/8pt type--i just finished formatting a beautiful version of the 3.5 SRD, which is pretty much all rules, no flavor text). Or, put another way, the combat chapter in D&d3E is 36pp, and that does'nt even include all the rules in the magic and skills chapters, not to mention the bits scattered all over the classes, feats, and other chapters. GURPS basic combat does pretty much everything D&D3E combat does, in 6pp (plus another 5 for healing). Even the advanced combat, which gives you a *lot* more bang for your buck, only takes another 25pp. Tri-Stat dX manages as much combat detail as D&D3E, and maybe a few more options, in ~11pp. And *all* the rules in Over the Edge, including character creation and copious examples, can fit in 2 pages of reasonable-size type. The line between "rules light" and "rules heavy" is fuzzy and much-debated. But D&D3E is nowhere near it--it's clearly on the "heavy" side. "Light" games are represented by such fare as Over the Edge, the Window, Story Engine, maybe original D&D, simple Fudge, Everway, Amber DRP. Things like some versions of Storyteller probably sit near the midpoint. Not D&D3E. [/QUOTE]

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