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*TTRPGs General
Revolutions are Always Verbose: Effecting Change in the TTRPG Industry
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<blockquote data-quote="Snarf Zagyg" data-source="post: 8356443" data-attributes="member: 7023840"><p>So since the issue seems to be allowed by the mods (?), here's the basic gist-</p><p></p><p>In some countries there is no gratuity. At all. Service industry workers are paid the same as others. </p><p></p><p>In other countries there is a mandatory gratuity added to the bill by law. However, depending on the country, it can be customary to leave a small amount (5-10%) or an American amount (15%+) on a bill <em>in addition to the already charged mandatory gratuity</em>. Whether this is for exceptional service (some countries in Europe) or is considered customary (Dubai, for example), depends on the country.</p><p></p><p>In America, employees in tipped positions (such as wait staff in restaurants) are paid below the minimum wage with the assumption that they will make the remainder money up from tips. So, take a state like Alabama- in that state, the hourly wage for a server is ... $2.13. And remember that most service industry workers are not getting any benefits.</p><p></p><p>The reason for this is because, in America, tipping is <em>customary. </em>And the amounts are also <em>customary</em> and have increased- you know what the custom is, because many places (especially in tourist areas, but increasingly everywhere) put it on your receipt. And I have never, ever, in my life seen any amount below 15%. In fact, it is increasingly rare to see 15% as an option. I have seen 20, 22, and 25 in many places. Square (which is a common POS option) allows tip amounts of 15%, 20%, or 25% as the defaults- notice that you can't "default" below 15%- you'd have to affirmatively opt out. </p><p></p><p>In addition, given that restaurants and servers have encountered ingrates (sorry, clever people) before, it is standard practice to include a minimum gratuity of at least 18% on parties of 6 or more, so you don't have people exercising their cleverness and screwing over the wait staff.</p><p></p><p>All this said, it points to the role of custom in our society. To use a banal analogy- if you go to a concert, you expect that the band will "end" their show, and then (LIKE MAGIC!) they crowd will make a lot of noise, and the band will be summoned back to do an encore, because the crowd is so great. We all know it's a big put on- the band has a set list, and the encore is on it already. But it's part of the show, and it's part of the social compact. It's the custom. And it's the same with tips; in America, it is now the expectation that a meal out will include a 20% gratuity- and many people (such as myself) will pay 25-30%, because we understand how the service industry works, and we appreciate their labor.</p><p></p><p>Some people choose not to do it. It's possible because, in this atomized society, tipping is done last. If you aren't going to eat at that restaurant again, or have the same server ... well, why not stiff them? Why not just write in the tip area, "Hey, here's a tip- get a better job!"* </p><p></p><p>....then again, to channel <em>Fight Club</em>, if you are a member of the .... 10%, I wouldn't go back to that place after I left that tip. And I sure wouldn't order the clam chowder.</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Moving it back to my OP and RPGs</em></strong></p><p></p><p>I originally wrote this:</p><p><em>First is the idea that we all care, in the abstract, about how companies treat their employees. But in reality, we don't act upon that- but we will act upon consumer-facing issues. I call this the Amazon Paradox. Let me make this more explicit-</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>As a general rule, most people will say that they want companies to do the right thing- have employees (not independent contractors) that are paid well, treated well, with decent vacations and generous benefits and the ability to retire at some time. But given the choice, they'll just go on Amazon and pay the lowest price they see for a non-sketchy product.</em></p><p></p><p>I wrote that to be nice. Because as we have seen in this thread ... it's not true that "we all care ... about how companies treat their employees." There is a small subset of people that are quite happy to screw over anyone and everyone if they can save a penny, and would probably raid the "take a penny, leave a penny" container at the local Mom & Pop store** if they ever shopped there- but they are proud Wal Mart shoppers. </p><p></p><p>But I don't think that's the majority of people. I still feel (despite some evidence to the contrary) that the majority of people are good- that they want people to be treated as they, themselves, would want to be treated. </p><p></p><p>So when I saw the post by [USER=239]@Mongoose_Matt[/USER] I had to ask- I think that he is asking the wrong questions. It's not really an issue of "In the great social strata, where should/could RPG creators sit?" I mean- market forces are about the efficient allocation of resources. It's rarely productive to think about how much a given profession should make- we know, empirically, that CEOs are paid way too much in America (the high compensation is not correlated to performance, and is the product of interlocking boards with misaligned incentives- moreover, there is a huge supply in the labor pool); weirdly, we also know that the top professional athletes are also paid too little (the allowed collusion between owners artificially lowers the amount of money going to them while simultaneously allowed owners to extract excess profits). </p><p></p><p>What is more interesting, and the reason I originally wrote the OP, was because I was thinking about the inclusivity issues. When you have an industry that has barriers to entry (TTRPGs require a fair amount of erudition and learning) and also is often treated as a part-time, hobbyist industry, it tends to attract certain types of people- those that can, largely, afford to already participate in the workforce.</p><p></p><p>It's the "intern problem." If you aren't familiar with it, I addressed it here-</p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.enworld.org/threads/revolutions-are-always-verbose-effecting-change-in-the-ttrpg-industry.681187/page-3#post-8333199[/URL]</p><p></p><p>TLDR- using unpaid internships as a barrier to entry means that certain jobs are reserved for the already wealthy. Here, the issue is similar- when there are positions that allow for a decent wage and a decent life in the TTRPG industry (like any other industry) ... not "Aston Martin" rich, but a good life, then it will attract a workforce that is more diverse, simply from the perspective that you don't have to rely on people that can afford to treat it as a lark or a hobby. </p><p></p><p>But in order to do that, you need to appeal to consumers who are interested in supporting a thriving industry. You need to change the norms and customs around it. You need to appeal to the "20%+" people, and not the "10% or less" (who would likely pirate their books anyway, because <em>they don't value the labor that goes into it</em>.)</p><p></p><p>*I knew a person who did that, or similar bon mots. No, they are no longer in my circle of people. </p><p>**<em>IT SAID TO TAKE A PENNY! SO I TOOK THEM ALL! IT'S THEIR FAULT, NOT MINE!!!!!!!! Stupid mom & pop deserved to have their pennies taken, because they aren't smart, like me. </em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Snarf Zagyg, post: 8356443, member: 7023840"] So since the issue seems to be allowed by the mods (?), here's the basic gist- In some countries there is no gratuity. At all. Service industry workers are paid the same as others. In other countries there is a mandatory gratuity added to the bill by law. However, depending on the country, it can be customary to leave a small amount (5-10%) or an American amount (15%+) on a bill [I]in addition to the already charged mandatory gratuity[/I]. Whether this is for exceptional service (some countries in Europe) or is considered customary (Dubai, for example), depends on the country. In America, employees in tipped positions (such as wait staff in restaurants) are paid below the minimum wage with the assumption that they will make the remainder money up from tips. So, take a state like Alabama- in that state, the hourly wage for a server is ... $2.13. And remember that most service industry workers are not getting any benefits. The reason for this is because, in America, tipping is [I]customary. [/I]And the amounts are also [I]customary[/I] and have increased- you know what the custom is, because many places (especially in tourist areas, but increasingly everywhere) put it on your receipt. And I have never, ever, in my life seen any amount below 15%. In fact, it is increasingly rare to see 15% as an option. I have seen 20, 22, and 25 in many places. Square (which is a common POS option) allows tip amounts of 15%, 20%, or 25% as the defaults- notice that you can't "default" below 15%- you'd have to affirmatively opt out. In addition, given that restaurants and servers have encountered ingrates (sorry, clever people) before, it is standard practice to include a minimum gratuity of at least 18% on parties of 6 or more, so you don't have people exercising their cleverness and screwing over the wait staff. All this said, it points to the role of custom in our society. To use a banal analogy- if you go to a concert, you expect that the band will "end" their show, and then (LIKE MAGIC!) they crowd will make a lot of noise, and the band will be summoned back to do an encore, because the crowd is so great. We all know it's a big put on- the band has a set list, and the encore is on it already. But it's part of the show, and it's part of the social compact. It's the custom. And it's the same with tips; in America, it is now the expectation that a meal out will include a 20% gratuity- and many people (such as myself) will pay 25-30%, because we understand how the service industry works, and we appreciate their labor. Some people choose not to do it. It's possible because, in this atomized society, tipping is done last. If you aren't going to eat at that restaurant again, or have the same server ... well, why not stiff them? Why not just write in the tip area, "Hey, here's a tip- get a better job!"* ....then again, to channel [I]Fight Club[/I], if you are a member of the .... 10%, I wouldn't go back to that place after I left that tip. And I sure wouldn't order the clam chowder. [B][I]Moving it back to my OP and RPGs[/I][/B] I originally wrote this: [I]First is the idea that we all care, in the abstract, about how companies treat their employees. But in reality, we don't act upon that- but we will act upon consumer-facing issues. I call this the Amazon Paradox. Let me make this more explicit- As a general rule, most people will say that they want companies to do the right thing- have employees (not independent contractors) that are paid well, treated well, with decent vacations and generous benefits and the ability to retire at some time. But given the choice, they'll just go on Amazon and pay the lowest price they see for a non-sketchy product.[/I] I wrote that to be nice. Because as we have seen in this thread ... it's not true that "we all care ... about how companies treat their employees." There is a small subset of people that are quite happy to screw over anyone and everyone if they can save a penny, and would probably raid the "take a penny, leave a penny" container at the local Mom & Pop store** if they ever shopped there- but they are proud Wal Mart shoppers. But I don't think that's the majority of people. I still feel (despite some evidence to the contrary) that the majority of people are good- that they want people to be treated as they, themselves, would want to be treated. So when I saw the post by [USER=239]@Mongoose_Matt[/USER] I had to ask- I think that he is asking the wrong questions. It's not really an issue of "In the great social strata, where should/could RPG creators sit?" I mean- market forces are about the efficient allocation of resources. It's rarely productive to think about how much a given profession should make- we know, empirically, that CEOs are paid way too much in America (the high compensation is not correlated to performance, and is the product of interlocking boards with misaligned incentives- moreover, there is a huge supply in the labor pool); weirdly, we also know that the top professional athletes are also paid too little (the allowed collusion between owners artificially lowers the amount of money going to them while simultaneously allowed owners to extract excess profits). What is more interesting, and the reason I originally wrote the OP, was because I was thinking about the inclusivity issues. When you have an industry that has barriers to entry (TTRPGs require a fair amount of erudition and learning) and also is often treated as a part-time, hobbyist industry, it tends to attract certain types of people- those that can, largely, afford to already participate in the workforce. It's the "intern problem." If you aren't familiar with it, I addressed it here- [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.enworld.org/threads/revolutions-are-always-verbose-effecting-change-in-the-ttrpg-industry.681187/page-3#post-8333199[/URL] TLDR- using unpaid internships as a barrier to entry means that certain jobs are reserved for the already wealthy. Here, the issue is similar- when there are positions that allow for a decent wage and a decent life in the TTRPG industry (like any other industry) ... not "Aston Martin" rich, but a good life, then it will attract a workforce that is more diverse, simply from the perspective that you don't have to rely on people that can afford to treat it as a lark or a hobby. But in order to do that, you need to appeal to consumers who are interested in supporting a thriving industry. You need to change the norms and customs around it. You need to appeal to the "20%+" people, and not the "10% or less" (who would likely pirate their books anyway, because [I]they don't value the labor that goes into it[/I].) *I knew a person who did that, or similar bon mots. No, they are no longer in my circle of people. **[I]IT SAID TO TAKE A PENNY! SO I TOOK THEM ALL! IT'S THEIR FAULT, NOT MINE!!!!!!!! Stupid mom & pop deserved to have their pennies taken, because they aren't smart, like me. [/I] [/QUOTE]
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