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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Reworking ASI's and feats by giving "ASI" points every character level, instead of 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 19th level.
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<blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 8087353" data-attributes="member: 72555"><p>A system that encourages you to choose to have a dead level still sucks.</p><p></p><p>No, shredding things into coleslaw doesn't improve balance.</p><p></p><p>Generally, coleslaw style mechanics -- everything broken down into small chunks -- have worse balance, for the same reason why cable companies have packages of channels and don't let people buy channels one-off.</p><p></p><p>For a concrete example, take a powerful feat like crossbow expert.</p><p></p><p>1. Melee-range ranged attacks</p><p>2. Multiple attacks with XBow in an action</p><p>3. Bonus action hand-xbow attack</p><p></p><p>If you split this into 3 pieces, characters can cherry-pick the ones that boost their build more per unit cost. Suppose we judge all 3 pieces to be 1/3 of the feat, and the feat combined is 3 points. If we set each piece to 1 point, then PCs can buy whichever their build specifically needs and be more efficient.</p><p></p><p>You'd then do the same with SS:</p><p></p><p>1. Ignore cover</p><p>2. Ignore long range</p><p>3. -5/+10</p><p></p><p>Here, it might break down to 1 / 1 / 2</p><p></p><p>A level 1 hand crossbow character would buy XBE 3 then SS 3. Until level 5, XBE 2 is worthless. They might then choose between XBE 1 and SS 2 to deal with the short range of the hand crossbow.</p><p></p><p>By dicing up a feat, you make cherry-picking the parts that work together cheaper, or you have to inflate the parts to deal with every possible cherry-pick and thus make them too expensive for builds who aren't doing the cherry-picking combo.</p><p></p><p>Chunked larger, you can still go for combos; but the extra pieces means that the price of the combo goes up significantly, as you have to <strong>pay </strong>for pieces that aren't part of your combo.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>Cost-wise, this just means you need to make your feats big and chunky.</p><p></p><p>I mean, it isn't that <strong>hard</strong> to take a worse feat at the scale of 5e feats and make it better. (Keeping it simple at the same time is, in my experience, the hard part).</p><p></p><p>In my opinion, I'd rather go back over feats and have the following rule. Have some piece of each feat that you would be happy to <strong>build a character around</strong>, and looking forward to getting it when you reach level 4.</p><p></p><p>Feats that fail that rule get rewritten. As an example, linguist. Building a character around knowing more languages? Seems a stretch. Even as a half-feat.</p><p></p><p><strong>Scholar</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Add +1 to your intelligence score</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You know 3 additional languages</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">When making an intelligence attribute check or saving throw, if you don't already add your proficiency modifier, add 1/2 of your proficiency modifier. If you already add your proficiency modifier, add +1.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You can attempt to cast spells from scrolls that aren't on your class spell lists. When you try to, make an intelligence ability check against DC 10 plus twice the spell level. On a failure, the spell fails and the scroll is ruined.</li> </ul><p></p><p>I could build a character's identity around that, and there is some serious crunch to hang onto. And it fits together thematically.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="NotAYakk, post: 8087353, member: 72555"] A system that encourages you to choose to have a dead level still sucks. No, shredding things into coleslaw doesn't improve balance. Generally, coleslaw style mechanics -- everything broken down into small chunks -- have worse balance, for the same reason why cable companies have packages of channels and don't let people buy channels one-off. For a concrete example, take a powerful feat like crossbow expert. 1. Melee-range ranged attacks 2. Multiple attacks with XBow in an action 3. Bonus action hand-xbow attack If you split this into 3 pieces, characters can cherry-pick the ones that boost their build more per unit cost. Suppose we judge all 3 pieces to be 1/3 of the feat, and the feat combined is 3 points. If we set each piece to 1 point, then PCs can buy whichever their build specifically needs and be more efficient. You'd then do the same with SS: 1. Ignore cover 2. Ignore long range 3. -5/+10 Here, it might break down to 1 / 1 / 2 A level 1 hand crossbow character would buy XBE 3 then SS 3. Until level 5, XBE 2 is worthless. They might then choose between XBE 1 and SS 2 to deal with the short range of the hand crossbow. By dicing up a feat, you make cherry-picking the parts that work together cheaper, or you have to inflate the parts to deal with every possible cherry-pick and thus make them too expensive for builds who aren't doing the cherry-picking combo. Chunked larger, you can still go for combos; but the extra pieces means that the price of the combo goes up significantly, as you have to [B]pay [/B]for pieces that aren't part of your combo. --- Cost-wise, this just means you need to make your feats big and chunky. I mean, it isn't that [B]hard[/B] to take a worse feat at the scale of 5e feats and make it better. (Keeping it simple at the same time is, in my experience, the hard part). In my opinion, I'd rather go back over feats and have the following rule. Have some piece of each feat that you would be happy to [B]build a character around[/B], and looking forward to getting it when you reach level 4. Feats that fail that rule get rewritten. As an example, linguist. Building a character around knowing more languages? Seems a stretch. Even as a half-feat. [B]Scholar[/B] [LIST] [*]Add +1 to your intelligence score [*]You know 3 additional languages [*]When making an intelligence attribute check or saving throw, if you don't already add your proficiency modifier, add 1/2 of your proficiency modifier. If you already add your proficiency modifier, add +1. [*]You can attempt to cast spells from scrolls that aren't on your class spell lists. When you try to, make an intelligence ability check against DC 10 plus twice the spell level. On a failure, the spell fails and the scroll is ruined. [/LIST] I could build a character's identity around that, and there is some serious crunch to hang onto. And it fits together thematically. [/QUOTE]
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Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Reworking ASI's and feats by giving "ASI" points every character level, instead of 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 19th level.
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