Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="TaranTheWanderer" data-source="post: 9631711" data-attributes="member: 15882">This is a mess but it's just ideas to be organized:The problem with the "Hide" action is it is too narrow in scope.  It deals only with sight.  I think there should be more language regarding the target's  "awareness".1. There should be mention of ambushing and surprise.2. There should be an extra mention as to whether a creature is "aware".  Making it possible to hide from someone in a crowd of people, for example or hide from someone who is 'distracted'.3.  I think the 'Hide' action puts too much onus on the one hiding.  Really, hiding from someone is trying to avoid detection.  So, once you are "hidden" you are "undetected" or "Unperceivable".Being Invisible(as the spell) gives a special benefit that allows you to be "Detected" and "Unseen" which allows  you to be attacked(and attack) with all the advantages that Invisibility allows.  If an opponent is invisible and the perceiver has truesight or blindsight, then you are "Detected" and "Seen"- So, if it were me, I'd let the Invisibility spell give you the "Unseen" Condition.- A successful "hide" check makes you "Undetectable" or gives you the "Undetected" condition.  Any action that would give away your location: such as making noise louder than a whisper, attacking, being "Seen" because of lack of cover or concealment, or otherwise drawing the target's attention to you ends the Condition.  Because we're dealing with detection, it means special senses like "Smell" and "blindsight" can "detect" without making perception check.  It's just a broader but more precise term.You must be "undetected" to make a hide check, even if the target is aware of you.  To maintain this condition, you must make a Sneak Check DC 15 or DC10+target's Perception bonus, whichever is higher.(I say "maintain" because you must be undetectable to even make a hide check in the first place, right?  Like you dive behind some tree cover and the target loses sight of you and there's too much ambient noise from combat for them to track you.  Now you are undetected and may make a "hide" check.  If you succeed, you remain hidden for your turn and may get all the benefits, such as moving unnoticed, and ambushing a target)- A target must not be aware of your presence in order to make a Hide check or be able to pinpoint your location.  That includes using deception to blend into a crowd, having cover or concealment.- Ambushing: If you successfully hide, you have a temporary opportunity to take someone by surprise even while out of cover.  You may attack someone with the advantage as long as you don't move more than half your speed and only for the first attack of a round.  (this is an example but I feel it should be made explicit on how moving from cover and attacking unsuspecting or unaware target works.)Okay, lets put this mess together:Hide: You may make a hide check to avoid Detection or to prevent characters from being Aware of your presence.  Make a Sneak check vs DC 15 or 10+ highest Perception check of the characters you are attempting to Hide from.  Failure means the target becomes Aware of your presence and you are Detected.  If you succeed, you remain Undetected, possibly allowing you to move past an enemy or sneak up on an enemy to make an Ambush.Awareness (Aware/Unaware): Awareness is the whether other characters know of your presence. You can make a Hide check if the target is "Unaware" of you.  Which could be because you are blending into a crowd, taking advantage of a target being distracted (an ally distracting them and you sneak up behind them) or because you are hiding behind cover. A target can be Aware of your presence even if you are Undetected."Detection (Undetected/Detected)":  This refers to whether a target knows your exact location.  Being Detected means an enemy is Aware of your presence and can pinpoint your exact location in or out of combat.  You could be Undetected because a target is Unaware of your presence or because you have Full or partial cover or concealment.  Making noise louder than a whisper(being heard), attacking, being Seen because of lack of cover or concealment, or otherwise drawing the target's attention to you ends the Condition.Sight: (Seen/Unseen):  This condition refers to whether a target can perceive you visually. You are considered to have Full cover/concealment against anyone relying on sight for Detection.  Invisibility gives you the Unseen condition.  For anyone relying on sight to Detect you, an Unseen character gets advantage to attacks and attackers get disadvantage. An Unseen character can attempt a Hide check against sighted characters.Ambushing/Surprise: You get advantage against anyone who cannot "detect" you or who is "unaware" of your presence.  Advantage is maintained as long as you move no further than "x" feet from cover(probably based on movement) and only affects your first attack in the round.I'm sure there's lots of holes in this.  I edited stuff regarding Unseen</blockquote>

Verification