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Rhemoraz CR7?
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<blockquote data-quote="Axiomatic Unicorn" data-source="post: 122748" data-attributes="member: 1974"><p>See through? I did not say anything about seeing through the ice.</p><p></p><p>I am not saying the party should get a DC13 spot check to go: "Hey, look guys! It's a Remorhaz under that ice over there."</p><p></p><p>I am saying that a 20 foot long worm burrowing ten feet below the surface is going to disturb the surface in a notable way. There should be a DC13 spot check to notice the disturbed mounds and/or depressions of ice combined with the signs of the motion of a 20 foot worm ten feet down. Enough to go: "Hey guys! I think something is over there, be careful." Now there is no surprise round. </p><p></p><p>The creature is Huge, has an INT of 5, has zero ranks in Hide and zero ranks in wilderness lore. There is nothing in the description to imply that its burrow ability does not leave a visible (or at least noticable) impact on the ice around him. Nor is there anything to imply it nows how to cover its tracks (no wilderness lore) or hold perfectly still so as to not cause shifts in the ice above it (no hide skill).</p><p></p><p>With the abilities actually listed in the MM it is a tough CR7 monster, but CR7 is ok. If you start giving it special invisibility powers that are not listed in the MM, then you are talking about a different monster.</p><p></p><p>If you want to claim that the Remorhaz should obviously have the ability to hide silently and motionless under the ice and leave no surface indications of his burrowing, fine. I can see that. But all that says is that WotC dropped the ball on the Remorhaz and did not provide it all the abilities it deserves. But they still gave it a fair CR for the abilities they did give it. So if you want to give it an ability that is not present in the MM, the CR listed in the MM is no longer relevant.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Axiomatic Unicorn, post: 122748, member: 1974"] See through? I did not say anything about seeing through the ice. I am not saying the party should get a DC13 spot check to go: "Hey, look guys! It's a Remorhaz under that ice over there." I am saying that a 20 foot long worm burrowing ten feet below the surface is going to disturb the surface in a notable way. There should be a DC13 spot check to notice the disturbed mounds and/or depressions of ice combined with the signs of the motion of a 20 foot worm ten feet down. Enough to go: "Hey guys! I think something is over there, be careful." Now there is no surprise round. The creature is Huge, has an INT of 5, has zero ranks in Hide and zero ranks in wilderness lore. There is nothing in the description to imply that its burrow ability does not leave a visible (or at least noticable) impact on the ice around him. Nor is there anything to imply it nows how to cover its tracks (no wilderness lore) or hold perfectly still so as to not cause shifts in the ice above it (no hide skill). With the abilities actually listed in the MM it is a tough CR7 monster, but CR7 is ok. If you start giving it special invisibility powers that are not listed in the MM, then you are talking about a different monster. If you want to claim that the Remorhaz should obviously have the ability to hide silently and motionless under the ice and leave no surface indications of his burrowing, fine. I can see that. But all that says is that WotC dropped the ball on the Remorhaz and did not provide it all the abilities it deserves. But they still gave it a fair CR for the abilities they did give it. So if you want to give it an ability that is not present in the MM, the CR listed in the MM is no longer relevant. [/QUOTE]
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