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<blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 3992909" data-attributes="member: 32164"><p>Well, I wouldn't describe myself as a "rabid" <em>Forgotten Realms</em> fan, although I've run FR games using the Grey Box, the <em>Forgotten Realms Adventures</em> Second Edition hardcover, the newer box set, and the 3e books. Each version had things I liked and things I disliked, and I suspect that will be true about the 4e version as well.</p><p></p><p>In the grey box, the Realms felt <em>new.</em> They truly felt like a vista of adventure, with all sorts of plots, secret societies, and the like. The vistas of adventure were enormous. The early setting updates were fantastic, from <em>Waterdeep and the North</em> to <em>The Bloodstone Lands</em>. And there were wonderful adventures too, like <em>Under Illefarn</em>. Not to mention there was some wonderful support info for setting a campaign in the Moonshae Isles.</p><p></p><p>But for all that, the grey box <em>Forgotten Realms</em> was about a world in decline. Dwarves were dying off, elves were departing for Evermeet. It was like Middle-Earth in the last days of the Third Age. And while that's an okay setting for a while, it feels...depressing as you keep playing in it.</p><p></p><p><em>Forgotten Realms Adventures</em> updated the world to post Time of Troubles, and advanced the timeline about 3 years. The setting got a shift to match the newly-released 2nd Edition of the game. And then not much happened for a couple years. This set added some nice detail to more areas, but the newly "activist" gods kinda bugged me.</p><p></p><p>Then came the 2nd Edition <em>Forgotten Realms</em> Boxed Set. Again, it added some wonderful new detail, and more NPCs that one could use to drive plot hooks. We had the PC's first adventure set in Shadowdale and facing the drow - IMO, one of the best intro adventures published in a campaign setting up until that point. Then there was the fantastic <em>Sword of the Dales</em> adventure series, and more stuff dealing with various other parts of the realms.</p><p></p><p>But this is when one started to get the impression that the Realms was just TOO big. There were hundreds of NPCs, many of them very nosy, like the Seven Sisters. And while I liked the Harpers, I liked them better as subtle agents than active super-mages. The whole "Chosen of Mystra" thing really took off in this edition, and became even more codified in 3e. They even had Khelben settle down with Laeral, and Elminster with the Simbul, and...</p><p></p><p>The 3e <em>Forgotten Realms</em> fixed a lot of the old "depressing" vibe, what with the Elven Retreat being over, and the booming birth rate among dwarves. On the other hand, the setting became even more high magic, and one started to think every person in the Realms was an ex-adventurer. And to me, you start to wonder what the role of heroes is when the mundanes are all heroic.</p><p></p><p>I'd LOVE to learn in 4e that many of the Chosen have bought it. Elminster, Khelben, and maybe two or three of the sisters can survive. But let's see Khelben back to pretending to be his own grandson, or Elminster as the wise old sage, but greatly reduced in actual power by the Spell Plague.</p><p></p><p>As for Elminster, he's a canny fellow, and would be pretty impressive as less of a busybody and more of a meddler. To me, El works best as a plot device - the kind of person who's always pointing people in the direction of trouble, but for one reason or another, can't actually get involved himself. He doesn't have to be "weak," but for him to have come off the Spell Plage somewhat "weakened" might be a dramatic improvement. Then, he'd actually have need for other adventurers again.</p><p></p><p>I think the Fourth Edition Realms holds a lot of promise. If nothing else, I might loot it for good ideas again. And that's something I haven't done much in 3e.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JohnSnow, post: 3992909, member: 32164"] Well, I wouldn't describe myself as a "rabid" [i]Forgotten Realms[/i] fan, although I've run FR games using the Grey Box, the [i]Forgotten Realms Adventures[/i] Second Edition hardcover, the newer box set, and the 3e books. Each version had things I liked and things I disliked, and I suspect that will be true about the 4e version as well. In the grey box, the Realms felt [i]new.[/i] They truly felt like a vista of adventure, with all sorts of plots, secret societies, and the like. The vistas of adventure were enormous. The early setting updates were fantastic, from [i]Waterdeep and the North[/i] to [i]The Bloodstone Lands[/i]. And there were wonderful adventures too, like [i]Under Illefarn[/i]. Not to mention there was some wonderful support info for setting a campaign in the Moonshae Isles. But for all that, the grey box [i]Forgotten Realms[/i] was about a world in decline. Dwarves were dying off, elves were departing for Evermeet. It was like Middle-Earth in the last days of the Third Age. And while that's an okay setting for a while, it feels...depressing as you keep playing in it. [i]Forgotten Realms Adventures[/i] updated the world to post Time of Troubles, and advanced the timeline about 3 years. The setting got a shift to match the newly-released 2nd Edition of the game. And then not much happened for a couple years. This set added some nice detail to more areas, but the newly "activist" gods kinda bugged me. Then came the 2nd Edition [i]Forgotten Realms[/i] Boxed Set. Again, it added some wonderful new detail, and more NPCs that one could use to drive plot hooks. We had the PC's first adventure set in Shadowdale and facing the drow - IMO, one of the best intro adventures published in a campaign setting up until that point. Then there was the fantastic [i]Sword of the Dales[/i] adventure series, and more stuff dealing with various other parts of the realms. But this is when one started to get the impression that the Realms was just TOO big. There were hundreds of NPCs, many of them very nosy, like the Seven Sisters. And while I liked the Harpers, I liked them better as subtle agents than active super-mages. The whole "Chosen of Mystra" thing really took off in this edition, and became even more codified in 3e. They even had Khelben settle down with Laeral, and Elminster with the Simbul, and... The 3e [i]Forgotten Realms[/i] fixed a lot of the old "depressing" vibe, what with the Elven Retreat being over, and the booming birth rate among dwarves. On the other hand, the setting became even more high magic, and one started to think every person in the Realms was an ex-adventurer. And to me, you start to wonder what the role of heroes is when the mundanes are all heroic. I'd LOVE to learn in 4e that many of the Chosen have bought it. Elminster, Khelben, and maybe two or three of the sisters can survive. But let's see Khelben back to pretending to be his own grandson, or Elminster as the wise old sage, but greatly reduced in actual power by the Spell Plague. As for Elminster, he's a canny fellow, and would be pretty impressive as less of a busybody and more of a meddler. To me, El works best as a plot device - the kind of person who's always pointing people in the direction of trouble, but for one reason or another, can't actually get involved himself. He doesn't have to be "weak," but for him to have come off the Spell Plage somewhat "weakened" might be a dramatic improvement. Then, he'd actually have need for other adventurers again. I think the Fourth Edition Realms holds a lot of promise. If nothing else, I might loot it for good ideas again. And that's something I haven't done much in 3e. [/QUOTE]
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