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Ridding Elves and Half-Elves of Darkvision
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<blockquote data-quote="Caliburn101" data-source="post: 7529355" data-attributes="member: 6802178"><p>To tackle each point made here;</p><p></p><p>Firstly - the vast number of things with darkvision in the game is <em>precisely</em> why the Gloomstalker has the ability to fool darkvision. I didn't limit my statement to PCs. Theme only comes into the fluff of it - the character class, as written and as reviewed by the various online people that do so is regarded as one of the best Ranger variants because of this - and not just in Underdark campaigns.</p><p></p><p>Secondly, I never said having LL Vision <em>and</em> darkvision separate was less complex, I have merely stated that LL Vision is simple. That's a fact, it is. Compared to darkvision it is also easier to run as it modifies just one variable - dim light - not the entire interplay between light, dim light darkness and variable ranges.</p><p></p><p>Thirdly, night ambushes in 5th Edition don't have a 'working as intended' ruling associated with them. They are just far less effective against parties, or against monsters in too many cases due to the lack of cover afforded by darkness when darkvision is so common. It forces a DM with any understanding of real world tactics, or just common sense on their own experience of darkness (and how evocative it can be for suspense, horror and surprise in an encounter) to largely discard this otherwise useful element of a game and come up with something counter-intuitive occurring in a black and white 60ft radius encounter bubble (most of the time). I say counterintuitive because humans run and play this game and don't have this sensory ability. I say counterintuitive with relevant experience, having used night vision technology in the military.</p><p></p><p>Ultimately darkvision being so very, <em>very</em> common adds nothing to the game, and takes away something from storytellers and players alike. To say that if night ambushes aren't working because of some failing in a DM is derisory and pretty ignorant of the history of conflict and how ambushes actually work. The effective use of darkness to surprise and ambush is a rich vein to mine for PC and monsters alike in the very many rpgs where darkvision is rare and this tactic is viable. It is used so very often in conflicts of all kinds in fact (both literary and real) that it is entirely illogical to state otherwise.</p><p></p><p>"Oh look, the stupid ninja is wearing <em>black</em>... like she thought that would hide her!" *derisory laughter emanates from any number of monsters in the 'ambushed' group*.</p><p></p><p>I am not saying that darkvision doesn't have a place, and that it is not possible to have suspense and surprise etc. whilst it is being used, but it's overuse makes such things more artificial and less relatable. It is very much overused in 5th Edition and without adding anything to replace what it takes away, trivialises a useful tool in the DM and Player narrative and gameplay arsenal as enjoyed widely in previous editions.</p><p></p><p>Ultimately, rpgs are just as much fun without ubiquitous darkvision - so why give it to so many of the denizens of a game world or a game just because of the argument that it is very marginally 'simpler' to run.</p><p></p><p>It isn't simpler, it isn't as easily imagined as low light vision and it adds nothing positive to the GM or Players experience to counterbalance the issues with it's over-availability.</p><p></p><p>I quite like having the odd mysterious NPCs "melt into the shadows" without players telling me they watch her go and see her scratch behind her ear as she turns the corner of the building in the pitch black. I quite like orcs bursting out of the darkness surprising the ill-prepared PC without having to wait until they make the mistake of camping in an area with easy approaches to it filled with heavy cover because they have, effectively a 60ft radius never-turned-off black and white floodlight.</p><p></p><p>Night activity adds atmosphere, fear of the unknown and the chance to be shocked and surprised by something <em>close</em> to you. That is not emulated by giving out disadvantage to everyone fighting in the dark. It only works when it is DARK.</p><p></p><p>If a game takes the opportunity from a storyteller to do that with most of the protagonists it needs to replace it with something to compensate.</p><p></p><p>5th Edition makes no attempt to and is poorer for it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Caliburn101, post: 7529355, member: 6802178"] To tackle each point made here; Firstly - the vast number of things with darkvision in the game is [I]precisely[/I] why the Gloomstalker has the ability to fool darkvision. I didn't limit my statement to PCs. Theme only comes into the fluff of it - the character class, as written and as reviewed by the various online people that do so is regarded as one of the best Ranger variants because of this - and not just in Underdark campaigns. Secondly, I never said having LL Vision [I]and[/I] darkvision separate was less complex, I have merely stated that LL Vision is simple. That's a fact, it is. Compared to darkvision it is also easier to run as it modifies just one variable - dim light - not the entire interplay between light, dim light darkness and variable ranges. Thirdly, night ambushes in 5th Edition don't have a 'working as intended' ruling associated with them. They are just far less effective against parties, or against monsters in too many cases due to the lack of cover afforded by darkness when darkvision is so common. It forces a DM with any understanding of real world tactics, or just common sense on their own experience of darkness (and how evocative it can be for suspense, horror and surprise in an encounter) to largely discard this otherwise useful element of a game and come up with something counter-intuitive occurring in a black and white 60ft radius encounter bubble (most of the time). I say counterintuitive because humans run and play this game and don't have this sensory ability. I say counterintuitive with relevant experience, having used night vision technology in the military. Ultimately darkvision being so very, [I]very[/I] common adds nothing to the game, and takes away something from storytellers and players alike. To say that if night ambushes aren't working because of some failing in a DM is derisory and pretty ignorant of the history of conflict and how ambushes actually work. The effective use of darkness to surprise and ambush is a rich vein to mine for PC and monsters alike in the very many rpgs where darkvision is rare and this tactic is viable. It is used so very often in conflicts of all kinds in fact (both literary and real) that it is entirely illogical to state otherwise. "Oh look, the stupid ninja is wearing [I]black[/I]... like she thought that would hide her!" *derisory laughter emanates from any number of monsters in the 'ambushed' group*. I am not saying that darkvision doesn't have a place, and that it is not possible to have suspense and surprise etc. whilst it is being used, but it's overuse makes such things more artificial and less relatable. It is very much overused in 5th Edition and without adding anything to replace what it takes away, trivialises a useful tool in the DM and Player narrative and gameplay arsenal as enjoyed widely in previous editions. Ultimately, rpgs are just as much fun without ubiquitous darkvision - so why give it to so many of the denizens of a game world or a game just because of the argument that it is very marginally 'simpler' to run. It isn't simpler, it isn't as easily imagined as low light vision and it adds nothing positive to the GM or Players experience to counterbalance the issues with it's over-availability. I quite like having the odd mysterious NPCs "melt into the shadows" without players telling me they watch her go and see her scratch behind her ear as she turns the corner of the building in the pitch black. I quite like orcs bursting out of the darkness surprising the ill-prepared PC without having to wait until they make the mistake of camping in an area with easy approaches to it filled with heavy cover because they have, effectively a 60ft radius never-turned-off black and white floodlight. Night activity adds atmosphere, fear of the unknown and the chance to be shocked and surprised by something [I]close[/I] to you. That is not emulated by giving out disadvantage to everyone fighting in the dark. It only works when it is DARK. If a game takes the opportunity from a storyteller to do that with most of the protagonists it needs to replace it with something to compensate. 5th Edition makes no attempt to and is poorer for it. [/QUOTE]
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