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Ridding Elves and Half-Elves of Darkvision
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<blockquote data-quote="epithet" data-source="post: 7533799" data-attributes="member: 6796566"><p>I've been here for a few pages, enough to see you bounce around between a couple of different "issues." Your biggest issue seems to be that the current rules don't go far enough in making a party use torches. You really seem to like torches, a lot. What you haven't done is to explain why everyone should be using torches, or rather why the game should encourage everyone to use torches beyond what it already does. I mean, if you want to see clearly and in color you'll need a light source, but it really seems to bother you that 5e doesn't go farther to promote torch sales.</p><p></p><p>Your other issue, as far as I can tell, is that creatures that ought to have superior night vision, like owls, don't. They've been lumped together with everyone else under the "darkvision" umbrella. While that is somewhat true, it isn't quite the problem that you make it out to be. An owl has the "Keen Hearing and Sight" trait, meaning that it has advantage on perception that offsets the disadvantage from dim light, so an owl can see "normally" in those circumstances beyond 120 ft. and has its advantage back within 120 ft. Even in pitch black darkness, the owl can see out to 120 ft. as well as a human can on a clear summer day, because the keen sight makes up for the effectively dim lighting condition from the darkvision.</p><p></p><p>Ultimately, though, these are just the mechanical tools provided to help a DM resolve things like hiding. There is no rule system (including 3e/PF/d20) that will do a good job of determining what an owl or an eagle can see, what a dog can smell, or even what a dragon can hear. That's always, under any system, going to fall on you to make a ruling on. One of the reasons I like 5e better than Pathfinder is that 5e doesn't attempt the level of granularity that 3e and its family codified, so it becomes easier to spot things that should just be hand-waved or excepted from the standard application.</p><p></p><p>If you like that level of simulationist detail, though, why not just play Pathfinder?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="epithet, post: 7533799, member: 6796566"] I've been here for a few pages, enough to see you bounce around between a couple of different "issues." Your biggest issue seems to be that the current rules don't go far enough in making a party use torches. You really seem to like torches, a lot. What you haven't done is to explain why everyone should be using torches, or rather why the game should encourage everyone to use torches beyond what it already does. I mean, if you want to see clearly and in color you'll need a light source, but it really seems to bother you that 5e doesn't go farther to promote torch sales. Your other issue, as far as I can tell, is that creatures that ought to have superior night vision, like owls, don't. They've been lumped together with everyone else under the "darkvision" umbrella. While that is somewhat true, it isn't quite the problem that you make it out to be. An owl has the "Keen Hearing and Sight" trait, meaning that it has advantage on perception that offsets the disadvantage from dim light, so an owl can see "normally" in those circumstances beyond 120 ft. and has its advantage back within 120 ft. Even in pitch black darkness, the owl can see out to 120 ft. as well as a human can on a clear summer day, because the keen sight makes up for the effectively dim lighting condition from the darkvision. Ultimately, though, these are just the mechanical tools provided to help a DM resolve things like hiding. There is no rule system (including 3e/PF/d20) that will do a good job of determining what an owl or an eagle can see, what a dog can smell, or even what a dragon can hear. That's always, under any system, going to fall on you to make a ruling on. One of the reasons I like 5e better than Pathfinder is that 5e doesn't attempt the level of granularity that 3e and its family codified, so it becomes easier to spot things that should just be hand-waved or excepted from the standard application. If you like that level of simulationist detail, though, why not just play Pathfinder? [/QUOTE]
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