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Ridding Elves and Half-Elves of Darkvision
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7533994" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>I know you have been around. But when you treat me to a complete newbie's introduction to the basic rules, that's what you get in return.</p><p></p><p>I don't bounce around.</p><p></p><p>My aim is crystal clear - too many races get Darkvision in 5E. Full stop.</p><p></p><p>Everything else follows from this. Even the torches, which I don't particularly like.</p><p></p><p>Once you understand how vulnerable torches makes you (assuming a night or underdark campaign as I've stated many times along the way), you realize that a no-light party can easily trivialize too much content. Yes, D&D assumes you have light sources, and many encounters depend on that. When you don't I can't rationalize monsters still finding the adventurers. Remember, 5E already makes characters super skilled compared to monsters. As you rise in levels, it becomes literally impossible for monsters to stage ambushes successfully, and if you then add "but how did they even spot us, we don't carry any light", it simply falls apart. (Or rather, it's one rules-related nuisance you'd rather not have to worry about) </p><p></p><p>The basic assumption behind "the darkness is scary" is that you can't see in it. This falls apart when Elves have darkvision, because you can too-easily create an all-darkness party. Sure, an all-Dwarf party could always see in the dark, but that's okay - after all, they're all Dwarves, and used to caves and dark passages. </p><p></p><p>So it isn't that I like torches. I do feel, however, that "light management" is an quintessential part of low-level D&D challenges. But 5E makes it too easy to avoid. A crafty player (like mine) will definitely tweak his character concept from human to half-elf if that allows everyone in the group to "go dark". </p><p></p><p>Being asked to change your human race into some monstrous race like Orc or Tiefling is a big step to take. But when Gnomes and Half-Elves allow you to extinguish your torches, it becomes too easy.</p><p></p><p>The upsides of 5E vision are touted as "it's simpler". But the downsides are far worse. And it's not like vision was too difficult before - your comparison to Pathfinder is ridiculous, as if pre-5E vision was somehow even close to that nightmare of petty modifiers and complicated NPC writeups?</p><p></p><p>So in the end analysis, I encourage everyone to not go along with 5E's decision to make vision so simple it's stupid. Thank you. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7533994, member: 12731"] I know you have been around. But when you treat me to a complete newbie's introduction to the basic rules, that's what you get in return. I don't bounce around. My aim is crystal clear - too many races get Darkvision in 5E. Full stop. Everything else follows from this. Even the torches, which I don't particularly like. Once you understand how vulnerable torches makes you (assuming a night or underdark campaign as I've stated many times along the way), you realize that a no-light party can easily trivialize too much content. Yes, D&D assumes you have light sources, and many encounters depend on that. When you don't I can't rationalize monsters still finding the adventurers. Remember, 5E already makes characters super skilled compared to monsters. As you rise in levels, it becomes literally impossible for monsters to stage ambushes successfully, and if you then add "but how did they even spot us, we don't carry any light", it simply falls apart. (Or rather, it's one rules-related nuisance you'd rather not have to worry about) The basic assumption behind "the darkness is scary" is that you can't see in it. This falls apart when Elves have darkvision, because you can too-easily create an all-darkness party. Sure, an all-Dwarf party could always see in the dark, but that's okay - after all, they're all Dwarves, and used to caves and dark passages. So it isn't that I like torches. I do feel, however, that "light management" is an quintessential part of low-level D&D challenges. But 5E makes it too easy to avoid. A crafty player (like mine) will definitely tweak his character concept from human to half-elf if that allows everyone in the group to "go dark". Being asked to change your human race into some monstrous race like Orc or Tiefling is a big step to take. But when Gnomes and Half-Elves allow you to extinguish your torches, it becomes too easy. The upsides of 5E vision are touted as "it's simpler". But the downsides are far worse. And it's not like vision was too difficult before - your comparison to Pathfinder is ridiculous, as if pre-5E vision was somehow even close to that nightmare of petty modifiers and complicated NPC writeups? So in the end analysis, I encourage everyone to not go along with 5E's decision to make vision so simple it's stupid. Thank you. :) [/QUOTE]
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