Riding a PC Issues

[Dr. NRG]

Does anyone have a reference for rules on riding on sentient mounts, say a PC centaur?

Any rules at all would be helpful. Rules on hiding, spotting, moving silently, and how they apply to both mount and rider would be particularly appreciated.

In the specific case I have in mind, both mount and rider have terrifically high move silently and hide skills, but it's not clear how/if they can use them.

Thanks in advance,

NRG

 

[Archer]

I'd say use the mounts move silently with a -2 circumstance modifier if the rider had metal armor.

Use the mount's hide skill with a -4 circumstance modifier as if the mount was one size class larger than normal.

 

[The Fifth Elephant]

For hiding, I would say that both creatures have to hide normally, but that the rider could probably use the mount for cover(to some extent, at least).

For spotting, I would give them both the same spot check.

Moving silently... I would say that the mount has to make the check, and that that check would be harder if the rider was wearing something that might make noise. For example, a centaur carrying a knight in full plate would have a harder move silently check than a centaur carrying a halfling rogue.

I do recall reading that the next Dragon issue has specific rules for this, so if you can wait, it might be worth it to go buy that.

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

Moving silently... I would say that the mount has to make the check, and that that check would be harder if the rider was wearing something that might make noise. For example, a centaur carrying a knight in full plate would have a harder move silently check than a centaur carrying a halfling rogue.

Wouldn't that be covered by the armor check penalty applied for carrying a medium or heavy load?

 

[The Fifth Elephant]

No... but it's a good point. I was mostly saying that because of armor; it's a lot harder to keep quiet when you have a lot of clanging metal on your back. Maybe the armor check penalty for metallic armor worn by the rider mods the move silently of the mount?

 

[Dr. NRG]

Helpful comments so far.

In this case, it's a stealthy rogue as a rider and a stealthy rogue as a mount. Both have negligible armor check penalties, and the mount is strong enough that the rider will not create a medium or worse) load.

I'm guessing that the mount will not receive penalties to attacks, AC etc. unless he's burdened, but I can't say that I have a specific rule to cite on this. Anyone help out with that, or am I looking at a "nothing says otherwise" situation?

NRG

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

Well, since armor check penalties from multiple sources on the same character (ie. from chainmail, a shield, and carrying a heavy load) all stack, that sounds reasonable. Simply applying the penalties from all armor being worn by the composite entity of the mount and rider.

 

[The Fifth Elephant]

Warhorses can attack fully with a rider, so it would seem like a fully sentient centaur would be able to do the same thing. Just my interpetation, of course.

However, if the centaur did any extreme manuevers, the rider might have to make ride checks to stay on, and it might prevent him from attacking fully; conversely, the centaur could take care to keep his rider on and able to fight, but he might not be able to attack fully.

 

[Dr. NRG]

Good point on the extreme maneuvers, Fifth Elephant. Both rider and mount tend to like to tumble... It's hard enough to picture a centaur-like creature (a bariur, to be accurate) tumbling. Picturing it with a rider just defies even an active imagination

Also, the rider is not a skilled rider, which complicates matters.

NRG

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

I'm guessing that the mount will not receive penalties to attacks, AC etc. unless he's burdened, but I can't say that I have a specific rule to cite on this. Anyone help out with that, or am I looking at a "nothing says otherwise" situation?

Well, the riding character would lose the use of any of his or her mounted combat feats. (The reasoning behind this being that the mounted chain of feats assumes that the mount follows instructions immediately without the useless delay of trying to think about the instructions, something that a sentient mount wouldn't be able to do without some extensive training.)

Other than that, I can only state that Savage Species will hopefully offer more helpful advice.