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Rime of the Frostmaiden Post-Mortem (Spoilers)
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<blockquote data-quote="Burnside" data-source="post: 8619330" data-attributes="member: 6910340"><p>I basically agree with this to a point - particularly with regard to the climate situation. Like, I think the climate as described in the book is ridiculous on the face of it (and not consistent with most quests, most NPC behavior, and the conditions described in most areas). But it's a super easy fix for the DM. I do expect better from a $50 book, but it's far from game-breaking.</p><p></p><p>I dispute that the human sacrifice situation fits as neatly into the "easy fix" category, though. And I also am not somebody who uses alignment either, so I'm not framing the problem as "But Lawful Good people wouldn't DO this!"</p><p></p><p>The problem is that the Ten Towns performing human sacrifices is a big, dramatic story element and the players are very, very likely to assume it is a quest hook in and of itself and set about poking into it - who thought of it? Who runs it? By what process is it implemented? How can it be stopped?...and the adventure just doesn't support the DM in this area at all. The designers should be helping the DM here, even if it's just one sidebar with the answers to those very basic questions (and the DM is then free to take or leave those answers). To me, if you introduce something as dramatic as human sacrifices, there's a narrative obligation as a designer to do something with it. You can't just go, "Hey, look, cool, gnarly idea. Too bad there's no 'there' there." It's just too front-and-center in the story to be treated like that.</p><p></p><p>For many groups, learning about the sacrifices is going to be one of the first things that happens in session one of the campaign - probably in the first few minutes of session one. And it's a narrative dead-end. It basically amounts to a piece of background atmosphere - but many, many players will assume that "stopping these human sacrifices" is like one of the main plot hooks they should investigate. When confronted with "Find me a chwinga for 10gp" or "stop the human sacrifices in this (perhaps YOUR) town", which quest will the players be more likely to pursue?</p><p></p><p>I think the difference of opinion in this thread is that some folks would described that as "a few scenes need to be filled in" (like the DM just has to perform a little expected touch-up work there) while for others it feels like "this is a pretty glaring oversight that potentially puts the DM in a rough spot - and the designers should have seen that."</p><p></p><p>EDIT: Again, I want to emphasize that this is actually among my very favorite 5E adventures. I actually love Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden. But it does bother me seeing people try to pin its obvious flaws on DMs instead of the designer (and I know you, [USER=7020832]@FrozenNorth[/USER] , are not doing that). </p><p></p><p>It has flaws. They're real. Personally, I kind of enjoyed fixing them and coming up with what I thought was some cool stuff to patch the holes. But that doesn't mean every DM should be expected to do that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Burnside, post: 8619330, member: 6910340"] I basically agree with this to a point - particularly with regard to the climate situation. Like, I think the climate as described in the book is ridiculous on the face of it (and not consistent with most quests, most NPC behavior, and the conditions described in most areas). But it's a super easy fix for the DM. I do expect better from a $50 book, but it's far from game-breaking. I dispute that the human sacrifice situation fits as neatly into the "easy fix" category, though. And I also am not somebody who uses alignment either, so I'm not framing the problem as "But Lawful Good people wouldn't DO this!" The problem is that the Ten Towns performing human sacrifices is a big, dramatic story element and the players are very, very likely to assume it is a quest hook in and of itself and set about poking into it - who thought of it? Who runs it? By what process is it implemented? How can it be stopped?...and the adventure just doesn't support the DM in this area at all. The designers should be helping the DM here, even if it's just one sidebar with the answers to those very basic questions (and the DM is then free to take or leave those answers). To me, if you introduce something as dramatic as human sacrifices, there's a narrative obligation as a designer to do something with it. You can't just go, "Hey, look, cool, gnarly idea. Too bad there's no 'there' there." It's just too front-and-center in the story to be treated like that. For many groups, learning about the sacrifices is going to be one of the first things that happens in session one of the campaign - probably in the first few minutes of session one. And it's a narrative dead-end. It basically amounts to a piece of background atmosphere - but many, many players will assume that "stopping these human sacrifices" is like one of the main plot hooks they should investigate. When confronted with "Find me a chwinga for 10gp" or "stop the human sacrifices in this (perhaps YOUR) town", which quest will the players be more likely to pursue? I think the difference of opinion in this thread is that some folks would described that as "a few scenes need to be filled in" (like the DM just has to perform a little expected touch-up work there) while for others it feels like "this is a pretty glaring oversight that potentially puts the DM in a rough spot - and the designers should have seen that." EDIT: Again, I want to emphasize that this is actually among my very favorite 5E adventures. I actually love Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden. But it does bother me seeing people try to pin its obvious flaws on DMs instead of the designer (and I know you, [USER=7020832]@FrozenNorth[/USER] , are not doing that). It has flaws. They're real. Personally, I kind of enjoyed fixing them and coming up with what I thought was some cool stuff to patch the holes. But that doesn't mean every DM should be expected to do that. [/QUOTE]
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