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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 6398501" data-attributes="member: 95493">Ignoring, for now, spells that completely bypass illusions in the first place, yes I agree that detect magic can get you part way there. It does not identify the hat of disguise for what it is. Beyond that..The problem I have with this assertion is that you start with 'if someone is suspicious' then you take action. I agree but at that point you could just ask them to remove their hat. The spell doesn't advance you any further. You have to be suspicious of the guy in the hat in the first place, have to spend three rounds studying him to figure out that he is is magical, that it is the hat is the source, that the type of magic is illusion. That is a problem for me. Hats of disguise are known to exist? Okay, tell EVERYONE you meet to remove their hats before you start a conversation - defeats the purpose of the hat of disguise. This also doesn't validate detect magic as a cure to the problem.Right, but as I said last time, most times people are using hats of disguise they don't seem to be doing it to change everything about themselves. Sometimes, certainly, it could happen. But by in large I find that most people use the hat to simply change their faces, maybe slightly alter their clothes but in no cases do I find they are realistically trying to portray themselves as a fighter instead of a wizard, or vice versa, using a hat of disguise.Either way, I don't think "Listen" is a very good way to defeat the illusion. Sounds like the worst justification for "interaction" I've heard in a long time.And I continually agree with spot - since hats of disguise give you a +10 bonus to disguise checks. The problem then lies in making the DC. The average (non-optimized) person vs. the average trained person with a +10 bonus isn't going to make that check. And I add on "trained" onto the disguised person since I find that most of the time it is the rogue or similarly trained character wearing the hat - not the party fighter who has zero ranks. But even a trained person vs. trained person with hat is going to have to do 10 better than normal.NO. As I said, I refrain from physical contact except with people I know well. I rarely give handshakes, except at times when I would be expected to by social custom and even then I avoid them when possible. I rarely give high-fives, hugs, kisses on the cheek, or so on. When I hand over money I might drop it into somebody's hand, or place it on the counter, when giving them a card I hold one end and they grab the other. All of these things mean that my contact with others is either non-existent or very limited. No matter what, I don't think the average person who is not already suspicious is going to notice that I am portraying myself as a different race based on the micro-second their flesh comes in contact with mine. This also assumes that I'm disguising my hand. I don't see why that is always true - why I said last time that the only time I can realistically expect them to encounter a illusion on my face is if they're touching my face. And at that point THEY are the suspicious one, or at least the strange one.I'm saying that if I change my race and appear leaner (human becoming an elf), or change my face to another human, that doesn't automatically mean that my hand goes from being "manly" to waif-like. I am a 6'2" man and I have damn near the same hand-size as my 5'6" mother. She is a different gender and different height/wight and yet our hands are the same basic size. Now hers are much smoother, but my hands have never been smooth (not even when I was a baby) so if I somehow could portray myself as my mother I don't expect people to automatically know I am not her based solely on a handshake! Not unless they have spent a good deal of time or somehow memorized her hands. The average person that has met her might just think that her hands are rough but not realize that they weren't last time they shook hands - I don't usually commit such things to memory without reason.And once again, if they are spending the time to study me, any part of me, then they are going to be obvious and suspicious. At that point I am alerted. At that point they aren't casually interacting. 9/10 they aren't even going to do this unless they have a damn good reason to suspect someone is up in the first place. To me that means that the hat would be a PERFECT disguise most of the time - when I don't think a 1800gp investment should be quite that effective. It should be good, useful, even helpful, it shouldn't be perfect in nearly all ways that avoid detection.</blockquote>

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