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<blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 6398631" data-attributes="member: 6669384">The Ring say you &quot;gain the benefit of Invisibility&quot;, not the spell itself.&nbsp; It says that this takes place while the ring is activated.&nbsp; If they had meant to include the duration of the spell they would have worded it differently.The Hat says that you can &quot;alter her appearance, as with the Disguise Self spell&quot;.&nbsp; Again, it describes an effect, but doesn't specify the use of the spell.&nbsp; No duration implied or specified.As a side note, a person using the hat may not appear to be wearing one.&nbsp; They can make it look like a headbeand, comb, earring, etc.&nbsp; Anything that would be worn in the &quot;head slot&quot; seems to fit the bill.I've seen people argue that a duration &quot;makes sense&quot; or is somehow needed to prevent abuse etc., and you're free to house rule your own game any way you like.&nbsp; Based on the wording in the SRD, however, the user of these items doesn't get the spell(s) indicated, just effects that resemble or are based upon them.&nbsp; The contention that they have a duration isn't in the RAW, as far as I can tell.Is there an errata on either of these items?&nbsp; As far as seeing through the Hat is concerned, you're presumed to be &quot;Taking 10&quot; on your Disguise most of the time.&nbsp; The Hat gives a +10 to this.&nbsp; Casual observation is done with the -5 &quot;Distracted&quot; penalty, whether it's Spot or Listen.&nbsp; For most people that makes the Hat pretty solid.Until, that is, someone hands you something, or your voice comes from the wrong place (The Hat, like the spell, can change your apparent height by up to a foot), or they bump against you and your &quot;commoner's outfit&quot; feels like half-plate.&nbsp; Spen any amount of time around someone and they'll get a real roll.The best way I ever got away with the Hat was when my character was introduced as some sort of semi-controlled shape shifter.&nbsp; The team's main caster wanted to do a scan of me, so I &quot;shifted to Human&quot; and made a show out of taking off my hat, straightening my hair and posing, as if for a picture.&nbsp; The Hat went into my pack, which was a Haversack, and so already detected as magical.He detected some magical gear about the character, but no over all spell affecting him.&nbsp; And, as with many PCs, once they check you out with the Detect spells, they never bother to check again, so... I give thanks for a good Bluff check. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Greenfield, post: 6398631, member: 6669384"] The Ring say you "gain the benefit of Invisibility", not the spell itself. It says that this takes place while the ring is activated. If they had meant to include the duration of the spell they would have worded it differently. The Hat says that you can "alter her appearance, as with the [I]Disguise Self[/I] spell". Again, it describes an effect, but doesn't specify the use of the spell. No duration implied or specified. As a side note, a person using the hat may not appear to be wearing one. They can make it look like a headbeand, comb, earring, etc. Anything that would be worn in the "head slot" seems to fit the bill. I've seen people argue that a duration "makes sense" or is somehow needed to prevent abuse etc., and you're free to house rule your own game any way you like. Based on the wording in the SRD, however, the user of these items doesn't get the spell(s) indicated, just effects that resemble or are based upon them. The contention that they have a duration isn't in the RAW, as far as I can tell. Is there an errata on either of these items? As far as seeing through the Hat is concerned, you're presumed to be "Taking 10" on your Disguise most of the time. The Hat gives a +10 to this. Casual observation is done with the -5 "Distracted" penalty, whether it's Spot or Listen. For most people that makes the Hat pretty solid. Until, that is, someone hands you something, or your voice comes from the wrong place (The Hat, like the spell, can change your apparent height by up to a foot), or they bump against you and your "commoner's outfit" feels like half-plate. Spen any amount of time around someone and they'll get a real roll. The best way I ever got away with the Hat was when my character was introduced as some sort of semi-controlled shape shifter. The team's main caster wanted to do a scan of me, so I "shifted to Human" and made a show out of taking off my hat, straightening my hair and posing, as if for a picture. The Hat went into my pack, which was a Haversack, and so already detected as magical. He detected some magical gear about the character, but no over all spell affecting him. And, as with many PCs, once they check you out with the Detect spells, they never bother to check again, so... I give thanks for a good Bluff check. :) [/QUOTE]

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