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Message: <blockquote data-quote="deleteme123456" data-source="post: 4460496" data-attributes="member: 65832">So a careful read of the PHB finds Take 20 ... nowhere. A more careful read sees the justification... almost every use of almost every skill has a failure effect (perception being a notable exception). OK, as a DM I appreciate that. Makes life easier, lots easier. As a DM to powergamers, I was presented with something I can't really argue with outside combat (they have admitted it's ineffective in combat)... the Take 18.Find 4 characters besides yourself (not hard given typicaly party of 5). These characters must not have a negative check modifier for the skill in question (not hard for mental and social skills, physical skills don't lend themselves to this much either). Each of these charcters takes 10 on a check to aid another targetting you. You then proceed to take 10 on your check. You're at 18 + modifiers, or about 25-29 for a trained Level 1 character, depending on the attribute synergy and racial bonuses.Now so far they haven't come up with anything too dangerous they can do with this, but it does mean they can identify any magical effect they're likely to encounter (it would have to be what, level 12+ at minimum?). That's not a huge deal, but annoying. Social checks could get ugly... one really powerful intimidate or bluff could have far-reaching consequences.Are there any other possible situations where this would get bad, and short of DM Fiat / Rule 0, any suggestions? I've toyed with not allowing take 10 / no retry on a check to aid another, but wasn't sure if that was really the fix I was looking for. Higher DCs are a possibility (I'm already using the errata'ed table but with the footnote, so hard level 1 is DC 20). No take 10 if you've been aided... doesn't change too much, but if you can retry, that's pointless.</blockquote>

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