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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Riposte Strike, etc., and Page 57
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<blockquote data-quote="Alraiis" data-source="post: 4380745" data-attributes="member: 61131"><p>Page 57 states: <strong>"Whenever you affect a creature with a power, that creature knows exactly what you’ve done to it and what conditions you’ve imposed."</strong> My question (well, ONE of my questions) regards powers like Riposte Strike: Does the enemy know that attacking you will provoke a riposte? The knee-jerk response I've heard is "everyone knows everything, so yes, they know" but I still don't buy it with the way the quote from 57 is worded.</p><p></p><p>Allow me, if you will, to over-analyze.</p><p></p><p>The "conditions you've imposed" part of the rule most likely refers to the list of specific conditions on 277, and perhaps conditions that consist of normal conditions with additional effects, such as "entombed" (Tarterean Tomb), which is a special kind of immobilization, or the given example of Divine Challenge, and perhaps Combat Challenge as well, which are special kinds of marking that come with additional effects. Indeed, the general definition of condition is as follows (also from 277): "A condition imposes a penalty, a vulnerability, a hindrance, or a combination of effects." Divine Challenge is clearly "a combination of effects," but is Riposte Strike one of these things?</p><p></p><p>If it isn't, then it must be covered (or not) by the phrase "what you've done to it." Is Riposte Strike's effect something you've <em>done</em> to the creature, or something you <em>could</em> do (or even something you've done to yourself: a buff, of sorts, that gives you the opportunity to riposte if attacked by the target) and thus something the creature won't know about until after you've "done" it? It's part of the "Hit:" line, so it's part of the power's effect, but is that enough for the creature to know about it? If it is, then this must extend to abilities like Dance of Death (rogue encounter 27), but this is problematic because any creature that knows the exact effects of being hit by Dance of Death will NEVER choose to attack the rogue--it will always be a bad idea--which seems to contradict the intended design, since the Artful Dodger perk only works on those attacks.</p><p></p><p>Also, quite a few "Hit:" entries have effects that are clearly buffs, not conditions or things "done to" an enemy, like Lance of Faith. Does the creature you hit know who you give the attack bonus to, and how much the bonus is for?</p><p></p><p>If the target knows about Riposte Strike, do they know about abilities like Hellish Rebuke (which triggers if anyone or anything, not just the target, damages the warlock)? If the target knows about Hellish Rebuke, do all its allies, because the power also triggers off their attacks? Is there a distinction between, say, Dire Radiance's damage and Riposte Strike's or Hellish Rebuke's? It seems like there might be, since Dire Radiance's effect specifically affects one creature (unlike Hellish Rebuke) and requires no immediate action or second attack on the warlock's part (unlike Riposte Strike), but these lines are fairly thin.</p><p></p><p>Does a creature observing a fighter with Rain of Steel active know that he'll be subject to attacks if he starts his turn next to the fighter? Certainly not, because nothing has been "done" to the creature yet (right?), but what about after the fighter attacks them once, since it then knows "exactly what [the fighter has] done to it"? Does a creature's knowing what has been done to it also let the creature know what it was that they did that caused this? Or does the creature simply know it took damage, but not necessarily why?</p><p></p><p>What are your interpretations and rulings? Are there clear answers? Have I missed a glaringly obvious sentence that addresses all of this? Discuss!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alraiis, post: 4380745, member: 61131"] Page 57 states: [B]"Whenever you affect a creature with a power, that creature knows exactly what you’ve done to it and what conditions you’ve imposed."[/B] My question (well, ONE of my questions) regards powers like Riposte Strike: Does the enemy know that attacking you will provoke a riposte? The knee-jerk response I've heard is "everyone knows everything, so yes, they know" but I still don't buy it with the way the quote from 57 is worded. Allow me, if you will, to over-analyze. The "conditions you've imposed" part of the rule most likely refers to the list of specific conditions on 277, and perhaps conditions that consist of normal conditions with additional effects, such as "entombed" (Tarterean Tomb), which is a special kind of immobilization, or the given example of Divine Challenge, and perhaps Combat Challenge as well, which are special kinds of marking that come with additional effects. Indeed, the general definition of condition is as follows (also from 277): "A condition imposes a penalty, a vulnerability, a hindrance, or a combination of effects." Divine Challenge is clearly "a combination of effects," but is Riposte Strike one of these things? If it isn't, then it must be covered (or not) by the phrase "what you've done to it." Is Riposte Strike's effect something you've [I]done[/I] to the creature, or something you [I]could[/I] do (or even something you've done to yourself: a buff, of sorts, that gives you the opportunity to riposte if attacked by the target) and thus something the creature won't know about until after you've "done" it? It's part of the "Hit:" line, so it's part of the power's effect, but is that enough for the creature to know about it? If it is, then this must extend to abilities like Dance of Death (rogue encounter 27), but this is problematic because any creature that knows the exact effects of being hit by Dance of Death will NEVER choose to attack the rogue--it will always be a bad idea--which seems to contradict the intended design, since the Artful Dodger perk only works on those attacks. Also, quite a few "Hit:" entries have effects that are clearly buffs, not conditions or things "done to" an enemy, like Lance of Faith. Does the creature you hit know who you give the attack bonus to, and how much the bonus is for? If the target knows about Riposte Strike, do they know about abilities like Hellish Rebuke (which triggers if anyone or anything, not just the target, damages the warlock)? If the target knows about Hellish Rebuke, do all its allies, because the power also triggers off their attacks? Is there a distinction between, say, Dire Radiance's damage and Riposte Strike's or Hellish Rebuke's? It seems like there might be, since Dire Radiance's effect specifically affects one creature (unlike Hellish Rebuke) and requires no immediate action or second attack on the warlock's part (unlike Riposte Strike), but these lines are fairly thin. Does a creature observing a fighter with Rain of Steel active know that he'll be subject to attacks if he starts his turn next to the fighter? Certainly not, because nothing has been "done" to the creature yet (right?), but what about after the fighter attacks them once, since it then knows "exactly what [the fighter has] done to it"? Does a creature's knowing what has been done to it also let the creature know what it was that they did that caused this? Or does the creature simply know it took damage, but not necessarily why? What are your interpretations and rulings? Are there clear answers? Have I missed a glaringly obvious sentence that addresses all of this? Discuss! [/QUOTE]
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