Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Rise and fall of editions and speculation on 5E
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 6694917" data-attributes="member: 59082"><p>Thanks for the reply. 3E seemed to have two crests, one in 2000-02 when the OGL was flourishing, and then one a bit later when 3.5 was at its peak (2004-05?) but before the bloat got out of hand (2006-07). Appelcline speaks highly of that earlier period because it was before 3.5 came out and the 3PP market crashed.</p><p></p><p>But your comment also reminds me that for a lot of folks, 3.5 wasn't in decline when 4E was announced - which is one of the reasons people were so upset. It wasn't like in the late 80s when 1E desperately needed a make-over, or in the late 90s when D&D needed a re-do. But the reason for 4E seemed entirely financial - WotC was running on fumes from splat sales and needed an edition re-boot, at least to please Hasbro.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would love to see that - a 5E Unearthed Arcana or "Unchained" product that brought in all kinds of modular options. I personally wouldn't use much of them, but it would nice to see the possibilities of the 5E game explored and expanded further. I do think we will see this kind of product, but not for a couple years and it will probably be one or two books, well-considered and going for quality over quantity.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I wouldn't say "less intriguing" but perhaps less marketable and consumable to a large audience. The translation of novel/movie fantasy and D&D fantasy has always been a bit iffy (like D&D nerds bagging on Gandalf for only being able to cast 1st and 2nd level spells). And I think the kitchen sink aspect of D&D, while making for fun gaming, doesn't quite work for a fantasy movie (which is why a D&D fantasy movie might work better in a strongly thematic setting like Dark Sun or Eberron or even Krynn, rather than the Forgotten Realms, but I digress).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well what they seem to be doing differently this time around, at least so far, is slowing down the inevitable decline by expanding the game at a much slower rate. </p><p></p><p>Which is one of the reasons I started this thread - it is hard to envision how 5E will peak and then fall. Dialing back to 2008-09, we could have had this conversation about 4E and even putting the Edition Wars aside, we could have predicted that the line would burn out. Now 4E fans would probably say that they didn't explore the edition as fully as they could have, but the point is that the torrential rate of book publication during those first few years of 4E--which was similar to the 3.5 out-put--can only be sustained for so long.</p><p></p><p>We don't know what 2016 will bring, but I suspect we'll see a bit of an increase in product over 2015, which only saw two story arcs and one upcoming setting/player's guide. Let's say 2016 includes two story arcs, one setting book and one splat. If that becomes a standard yearly out-put, or even if it goes up to 2 story arcs and 2-4 other books a year, it will still stretch out the edition cycle quite a bit from 4E and 3.5...<em>if</em> WotC is more moderate in expectations for sales of the D&D line, which it <em>seems</em> that they are due to their much reduced staff and focus on the brand as a whole.</p><p></p><p>In other words, one big difference from all previous editions is that D&D the RPG is no longer the main focus of money-making for D&D the brand. They seem to be looking at it as the heart and soul of the brand, but not relying on it to carry the income.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercurius, post: 6694917, member: 59082"] Thanks for the reply. 3E seemed to have two crests, one in 2000-02 when the OGL was flourishing, and then one a bit later when 3.5 was at its peak (2004-05?) but before the bloat got out of hand (2006-07). Appelcline speaks highly of that earlier period because it was before 3.5 came out and the 3PP market crashed. But your comment also reminds me that for a lot of folks, 3.5 wasn't in decline when 4E was announced - which is one of the reasons people were so upset. It wasn't like in the late 80s when 1E desperately needed a make-over, or in the late 90s when D&D needed a re-do. But the reason for 4E seemed entirely financial - WotC was running on fumes from splat sales and needed an edition re-boot, at least to please Hasbro. I would love to see that - a 5E Unearthed Arcana or "Unchained" product that brought in all kinds of modular options. I personally wouldn't use much of them, but it would nice to see the possibilities of the 5E game explored and expanded further. I do think we will see this kind of product, but not for a couple years and it will probably be one or two books, well-considered and going for quality over quantity. I wouldn't say "less intriguing" but perhaps less marketable and consumable to a large audience. The translation of novel/movie fantasy and D&D fantasy has always been a bit iffy (like D&D nerds bagging on Gandalf for only being able to cast 1st and 2nd level spells). And I think the kitchen sink aspect of D&D, while making for fun gaming, doesn't quite work for a fantasy movie (which is why a D&D fantasy movie might work better in a strongly thematic setting like Dark Sun or Eberron or even Krynn, rather than the Forgotten Realms, but I digress). Well what they seem to be doing differently this time around, at least so far, is slowing down the inevitable decline by expanding the game at a much slower rate. Which is one of the reasons I started this thread - it is hard to envision how 5E will peak and then fall. Dialing back to 2008-09, we could have had this conversation about 4E and even putting the Edition Wars aside, we could have predicted that the line would burn out. Now 4E fans would probably say that they didn't explore the edition as fully as they could have, but the point is that the torrential rate of book publication during those first few years of 4E--which was similar to the 3.5 out-put--can only be sustained for so long. We don't know what 2016 will bring, but I suspect we'll see a bit of an increase in product over 2015, which only saw two story arcs and one upcoming setting/player's guide. Let's say 2016 includes two story arcs, one setting book and one splat. If that becomes a standard yearly out-put, or even if it goes up to 2 story arcs and 2-4 other books a year, it will still stretch out the edition cycle quite a bit from 4E and 3.5...[I]if[/I] WotC is more moderate in expectations for sales of the D&D line, which it [I]seems[/I] that they are due to their much reduced staff and focus on the brand as a whole. In other words, one big difference from all previous editions is that D&D the RPG is no longer the main focus of money-making for D&D the brand. They seem to be looking at it as the heart and soul of the brand, but not relying on it to carry the income. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Rise and fall of editions and speculation on 5E
Top