Rise of the Runelords: Difficulty Level (Spoilers included)

[Votan]

I just decided to start the PF adventure path "Rise of the Runelords" with a new group. My hope for a gentle introduction was not met.

There were 3 characters (elite array, book gold): a human rogue, a gnome sorcerer and a dwarf monk. I found the goblins simply murderous. The characters had a very hard time hitting AC 16; the goblins had trouble hitting the monk in full defense but the party simply lacked the staying power to keep going. Adding a dwarf cleric helped (a bit) but we still hovered on the edge of a TPK in the caverns of Wrath )they went the fast way, bypassed most of the XP and dicovered that they could not stop the Quasit as level 2 characters.

Was this bad dice rollign and nothing else? Anybody else try this adventure? Is 3-4 too few PCs for a reasonable party? Advice?

 

[Abciximab]

While I have never run this adventure I have read it and believe it would be very hard for 3 characters.

The Addition of a Cleric should help a bit, but without a heavy hitter/fighter type it will still be challenging. You have 3 characters with low AC & low BAB and they all work best with assistance from other more martial classes to keep the mooks off of them.

Intelligent play can make up for some of that (Rogue/Monk tumbling to flank, Net/Cloak capturing invisible opponents), but as we all know, luck plays a big role as well making it harder to succeed without a well balanced party especially against multiple opponents.

 

[czak]

Rise of the Runelords has a few places where a tpk is likely. The end boss of the second book is a killer - you will need to tone her encounter down. The adventure path as a whole is very dangerous. The third book focuses on heavy hitting ogres with power attack. The fourth has an army of giants.

Consider adding a barbarian or fighter to soak up some of the punishment or encouraging your players to focus on stealth (monk, rogue and invisible sorcerer) and being willing to run away and regroup. I ran the adventure path using the beta rules and between 4-6 experienced players a session.

Are you playing 3.5 or pathfinder?

 

[Crothian]

I would also let the PCs be a level or two higher then the book suggests and you might want to give out a few ex tra magical items so that they are a bit more powerful to make up for less players.

 

[Votan]

Rise of the Runelords has a few places where a tpk is likely. The end boss of the second book is a killer - you will need to tone her encounter down. The adventure path as a whole is very dangerous. The third book focuses on heavy hitting ogres with power attack. The fourth has an army of giants.

Consider adding a barbarian or fighter to soak up some of the punishment or encouraging your players to focus on stealth (monk, rogue and invisible sorcerer) and being willing to run away and regroup. I ran the adventure path using the beta rules and between 4-6 experienced players a session.

Are you playing 3.5 or pathfinder?

We are playing Pathfinder. I'd assumed that the more powerful PF characters would make up for a lot but I was wrong.

Some of it had to be bad rolling. The rogue and monk set up a couple of great flanks that ended with the rogue missing. In fact, in five encounters, he only had one sneak attack that really paid off (and a couple more that hit and killed a single goblin). Part of it was he had (IIRC) ma +2 to hit (1st level) and the Goblins had an AC of 16.

He actually broke his bad streak with the Quasit but she had DR 5 (things they could never have at that level), a 22 AC and Fast Healing 2. So despite great rolls, the Quasit always had time to recover by flying around.

I suspect that you are correct and that a fighter or Barbarian anchor would have made an enormous difference.

 

[Votan]

While I have never run this adventure I have read it and believe it would be very hard for 3 characters.

The Addition of a Cleric should help a bit, but without a heavy hitter/fighter type it will still be challenging. You have 3 characters with low AC & low BAB and they all work best with assistance from other more martial classes to keep the mooks off of them.

Intelligent play can make up for some of that (Rogue/Monk tumbling to flank, Net/Cloak capturing invisible opponents), but as we all know, luck plays a big role as well making it harder to succeed without a well balanced party especially against multiple opponents.

The glassworks was murder. The players used good tactics (a total defense, blessed monk blocking the doorway could only be hit on a 20) but I had the goblins fetch Tsuto and flank using the hallway. The result was three players down and one players (the sorcerer) escaping by an inch with expeditious retreat.

I am thinking that a six character group with a Fighter or a Barbarian or subtracting AC from all of the monsters is needed . . .

 

[Votan]

I would also let the PCs be a level or two higher then the book suggests and you might want to give out a few ex tra magical items so that they are a bit more powerful to make up for less players.

That's not a bad idea. Maybe an heirloom magic item . . .

 

[IronWolf]

Was this bad dice rollign and nothing else? Anybody else try this adventure? Is 3-4 too few PCs for a reasonable party? Advice?

I haven't run or read this AP, but from what I have read of Pathfinder Adventures and what I have generally heard - they can be lethal! Smart players and proper sacrifices to the dice gods are all good things to help folks get through.

 

[czak]

The campaign arc and final adventures are really worth it, so do what you have to give your players a fair shake.

Another idea - there are a number of rune magic feats, items and special spells (some in a free web enhancement somewhere) - as your players earn sin points and research Thassilon give them some extras as a bonus.

Also Nick Logue posted his unedited hook mountain massacre on his forums as sinisteradventures.com

 

[TheAuldGrump]

You may want to use some variant of action points - it can make all the difference in a game with not quite enough players.

The Auld Grump