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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 5913025" data-attributes="member: 92511">1) This is good to hear. As with everyone else, the implementation of them [sounds like] was not good. But the flavor and possibilities were full of win.2) Various spells might, should I dare say, still be spells. The "it's a utility=a ritual" needsto go away.3)Certain spells could still be spells, but perhaps have ritual-version options. This would, again going with the "options to [attempt to] make everyone happy", allow those who want X available for "combat-casting" have their cake, and those who want a major site/encounter time consuming plot device can have their cake too...now whether anyone getsto eat it? We'll have to see.I'm thinking (completely off the top of my head here) something like this:<Note: These are all completely hypothetical with no knowledge of what actual game mechanics/crunch will look like and the fluff/flavour completely made up, by me, just now. So please do not clutter up the thread with "But this spell should be X" or "that spell does Y/round" or whatever. Not the point...just an idea. Please and thank you.>Spell/Ritual/Ceremony.Knock: Spell opens any mundanely locked door or portal (windows, gates, sewer grates, locked chests, anything that is built to/can be opened) and has a chance to open magically sealed portals (caster level +/- whatever vs. arcane lock caster level, etc.) --Castable as Ritual: requires 1-3 casters. Casing time 1 hour. A Knock Ritual, in addition to functioning as the spell, is able to open magical seals up to the combined caster levels involved in the ritual. It is also possible to perform the ritual to open a momentary portal to another plane (creates a Gate), lasting no more than 1 hour per caster (a ritual with 3 casters will remain open for 3 hours) involved and bringing forth only creatures whose HD do not exceed the number of casters' levels. ---Castable as a Ceremony [Greater Ritual]: the Ceremony requires a minimum of 5 casters (and may have/demand up to whatever number you want for story purposes). Casting time is 5 hours. The Knock Ceremony opens a Gate, as the ritual, which is permanent. Also, there is no limit to the HD of creature(s) that may cross the barrier.Animate Dead: Spell -castable anywhere (there are corpses available). Casting time X. Infuses up to d4 HD/caster level of available corpses with arcane energy, animating them as mindless undead (zombies and/or skeletons) under the caster's complete verbal control. The animation lasts X rounds/caster level.--Ritual: Requires 1-3 casters. Casting time 1 hour. Animates 2 HD of corpses to a total not exceeding the total number of caster levels performing the ritual. The animation lasts 1 day per caster level involved.--Cerermony: Requires minimum of 5 casters. Casting time 5 hours. Animates 4 HD of mindless undead per caster level involved. The animation is permanent and the creatures are under the verbal or mental control of any of the "primary" caster involved.So the spell might be used to make yourself a couple of skeleton "summoned monsters" for a combat. The ritual could be used to raise a good section of a cemetery and terrorize the local town. The ceremony could raise an entire ancient battlefield that you didn't even know had dead beneath the soil.Raise Dead: Ritual. I don't think anyone's going to argue that. Though perhaps a "Ceremony" version, taking longer and more casters to raise more than one person at a time?Comprehend Languages: Spell...unless people want to add a "Ritual" type to allow more than just the caster understand the language?Dimension Door: spell, as normal. Ritual: the portal remains open to specified place for 1 hour/caster levels. Usable as many times as caster levels involved. Ceremony: portal  is permanent (though still the entrance and "exit" points are immutable). No limit to number of times it can be used.Teleport: similarly a spell or a ritual (teleport a bunch more people than you could do yourself) or a ceremony (create a permanent teleportal platform or something)...You're seeing the gist here, I suspect.But yeah, have to go through on a (utility) spell-by-spell basis and decide what each does.As everyone has said: rituals need to require time and expensive/rare components (i.e. lotsa GP). Same with ceremonies and the added expense of "burning off" XP (potentially quite a bit) to generate the greater effects (also a reason the more casters you can involve, the better, as everyone needs to lose less XP if you're dividing it among more people)Then, just wait til they come around to the idea of allowing NON-utility spells with Rituals and Ceremonies...<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devil.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":devil:" title="Devil    :devil:" data-shortname=":devil:" />(Flame Strike ceremony...permanent pillars of flame from above, movable at the mental commands of the primary caster...Permanent Flame Strike tornadoes scouring the countryside, anyone? bwahahaha.)--SD</blockquote>

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