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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5375976" data-attributes="member: 82106">Really gone down the list and determined the cost relative to the cost of other things at the relevant levels? VERY few rituals have significant cost relative to anything else a PC of the same level would purchase. Most of them are considerably cheaper than a consumable of the same level, which is already 5x cheaper than an item. Most of them are pretty useful even at much higher levels than they are introduced as well, unlike most items and consumables. So basically 95% of all ritual casting is from pocket change, not even worth accounting for in most situations.I don't generally get the slowness argument much either. Most rituals aren't going to be cast in a situation where the difference between 1 minute, 10 minutes, and an hour is going to matter much. The few situations where this is not the case are almost entirely situations where the ritual replaces or steps on the abilities of some other class and thus really NEEDS to be a slightly more situational or slightly less convenient backup solution (Knock for instance).So I still don't get it. The entire issue seems to me to be rooted in "wizards got to do that instantly for free in 3.x." Well, if you want to go back to the situation where the wizard could just whip out something from his spell list and replace any other PC then it makes sense to make rituals free and cast instantly (or closer to that). If the idea is to provide the players with a way for a wizard to do stuff that is mysterious and and magicky and can do something nobody else can do in the right situation, and give them that real "Hey, I really know magic inside and out" feel, then the existing ritual system is pretty good. It is a nice bonus that it can be easily grafted onto other classes too if you want to make some kind of non-combat casting character (rogue that uses magic to supplement his thievery skills for example). There are a few individual rituals that could probably use a tweak or two. That is true of powers, feats, items, etc as well though. I don't think the whole mechanic should be condemned. Going through and making a few adjustments on casting times, costs, levels, etc is not at all a bad idea. Drastic changes being needed? I just don't get that. Honestly I think in my DMing I've relied on leveraging the ritual system more than any other new thing in 4e to do cool stuff. It is a system that was just BEGGING to exist in older editions and we finally got it. Heck, go back and look at early issues of Dragon, there were a bunch of different attempts to do basically the same thing, it isn't a new need. Anyway, I honestly hope that whatever changes HAVE been made to rituals aren't all that drastic, or if they are they allow for them to continue to fill their existing niche in much the same way because if that isn't true, heck I'll just stick with the old version. There's no way I'm giving up something I've wanted for over 20 years and finally got.</blockquote>

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