TheSword
Warhammer Fantasy Imperial Plenipotentiary
Guy, Ryan, Pedro and Matt stop reading now.
The forgotten Realms are great. They have history, high magic, fantastical locations and great organizations. I love DMing in the Realms. However it is fair to say it comes under some criticism. Chief of which is the presence of all Ed Greenwood’s high level game table PCs that litter the realms like tactical nuclear warheads waiting to be deployed.
I’m only kidding (partly), I think Elminster and the Seven Sisters are dandy and I’ve played many campaigns in the realms without problem. But I would like to do things little differently in the next campaign. Instead of making them busy elsewhere and therefore absent, I’d like to subvert the legends around them to be at best reliable narration at worst deliberate deceit. Here are some examples of characters and how I’ve given them a new spin.
The Knights of Myth Drannor
“Heroes? No. Survivors with good PR.”
The so‑called Knights of Myth Drannor are less a noble order and more a notorious band of opportunists who stumbled into legend through a mix of luck, manipulation, and the occasional accidental act of heroism.
They defended the Dalelands… after accidentally provoking the threat in the first place. They delved into the ruins of Myth Drannor not to preserve elven heritage, but because Elminster convinced them there was treasure “just behind the next door.”And they have a tenuous relationship with the elves mostly because the elves were the only ones who hadn’t yet realized Elminster was a fraud.
For those that read my thread on adventures making common folk wary… these boys and girls are the reason why! Their reputation as champions of Cormanthor is largely the result of one man’s relentless talent for illusion, misdirection, and narrative control. That man is Elminster.
Elminster Aumer, Sage of Shadowdale
“If Elminster says it’s true, then it’s true enough for me.”
Elminster isn’t a Chosen of Mystra or a cosmic wizard. He’s a competent but ethically flexible illusionist, a master of sleight of hand, glamers, and social engineering. He creates fake monsters to “heroically” banish while his Illusions of grandeur make the Knights seem far more powerful than they are. Realizing that any tale where the knights succeed with his assistance is a service to him as well.
A network of marks who owe him favors because they believe he saved them and a talent for rewriting events so the Knights always appear on the right side of history are responsible for his legendary power. He’s charming, infuriating, and impossible to pin down. Half the Dalelands think he’s a hero. The other half think he’s a menace. He also uses his fame to keep the attention of young female barmaids, supplicants, and would be apprentices, none of which get the implied training or assistance.
Elminster will prove to be a supreme disappointment and in discovering his truth, the party will have to decide how to handle him. Play his game, take revenge or turn the tables. Though that does mean his reputation can no longer keep the Dalelands safe from Red Wizards, Dragon Cultists and Zhentarim magi.
Lord Mourngrym Amcathra
“Lord Mourngrym still thinks milk comes from kitchens and roads fix themselves”
Instead of the earnest, duty‑bound lord of Shadowdale, Mourngrym is a vain, pampered noblefrom Waterdeep sent to Shadowdale because his family wanted him out of the way. Convinced he’s destined for greatness despite never having earned anything he is obsessed with appearances, titles, and ceremony.
What’s more he’s completely unprepared for rural life, danger, or responsibility. He’s not evil — just entitled, sheltered, and catastrophically unaware of how the world works. This means that Shadowdale is at terrible risk from the various forces surrounding it. It also means that if the PCs play up to his expectations and vanity they could actually be quite influential.
The Gods
“If the gods care for us, they’ve a strange way of showing it — like a parent who forgets your name.”
For this to work the gods need a little re-write. Instead of omniscient beings, the gods become ancient, powerful entities (or newly raised powers seriously out of their depth) with limited perception, bound by cosmic rules they barely understand and prone to mistakes, rivalries, and miscalculations. They are entirely dependent on mortal belief to maintain stability which gives them a certain self interest when it comes to deciding where to spend their divine currency. Their interventions are imperfect decisions rather than divine certainties. The Time of Troubles wasn’t a grand lesson for mortals. It was a catastrophic administrative meltdown among the gods, with Ao acting like a furious supervisor.
Clerics and paladins still get spells, but the gods frequently rely on the weave to interpret faith. They can’t possible respond personally to every prayer… though the clergy will often claim otherwise. A cleric’s miracle might be a genuine divine response, a weave generated effect shaped by belief or a coincidence interpreted as divine will. Mortals can’t tell the difference. Temples, priests, and bards have been telling stories for centuries. Much of what mortals “know” about the gods is exaggerated or politically motivated. This lets me keep every myth, every scripture, every divine appearance — but gives me license to reinterpret them as unreliable.
In Conclusion
All this creates lots of opportunities for humor and for the players to become the centre of attention. It’s a Counter-Realms which takes the big names and makes interaction with them far more interesting than them being the heroes who did it all themselves first.
It’s worth saying again that not all NPCs behave this way. There are good and honest people that the PCs will meet. They just tend not to be the big players in the area. Also I’m not precious about Lore. Mourngrym is my lord of Shadowdale even though in the canon realms he would be dead and buried. Same for the Knights of Myth Drannor.
What do people think, fun idea for a jaded set of long term players or a desecration of everything the realms hold dear?
The forgotten Realms are great. They have history, high magic, fantastical locations and great organizations. I love DMing in the Realms. However it is fair to say it comes under some criticism. Chief of which is the presence of all Ed Greenwood’s high level game table PCs that litter the realms like tactical nuclear warheads waiting to be deployed.
I’m only kidding (partly), I think Elminster and the Seven Sisters are dandy and I’ve played many campaigns in the realms without problem. But I would like to do things little differently in the next campaign. Instead of making them busy elsewhere and therefore absent, I’d like to subvert the legends around them to be at best reliable narration at worst deliberate deceit. Here are some examples of characters and how I’ve given them a new spin.
The Knights of Myth Drannor
“Heroes? No. Survivors with good PR.”
The so‑called Knights of Myth Drannor are less a noble order and more a notorious band of opportunists who stumbled into legend through a mix of luck, manipulation, and the occasional accidental act of heroism.
They defended the Dalelands… after accidentally provoking the threat in the first place. They delved into the ruins of Myth Drannor not to preserve elven heritage, but because Elminster convinced them there was treasure “just behind the next door.”And they have a tenuous relationship with the elves mostly because the elves were the only ones who hadn’t yet realized Elminster was a fraud.
For those that read my thread on adventures making common folk wary… these boys and girls are the reason why! Their reputation as champions of Cormanthor is largely the result of one man’s relentless talent for illusion, misdirection, and narrative control. That man is Elminster.
Elminster Aumer, Sage of Shadowdale
“If Elminster says it’s true, then it’s true enough for me.”
Elminster isn’t a Chosen of Mystra or a cosmic wizard. He’s a competent but ethically flexible illusionist, a master of sleight of hand, glamers, and social engineering. He creates fake monsters to “heroically” banish while his Illusions of grandeur make the Knights seem far more powerful than they are. Realizing that any tale where the knights succeed with his assistance is a service to him as well.
A network of marks who owe him favors because they believe he saved them and a talent for rewriting events so the Knights always appear on the right side of history are responsible for his legendary power. He’s charming, infuriating, and impossible to pin down. Half the Dalelands think he’s a hero. The other half think he’s a menace. He also uses his fame to keep the attention of young female barmaids, supplicants, and would be apprentices, none of which get the implied training or assistance.
Elminster will prove to be a supreme disappointment and in discovering his truth, the party will have to decide how to handle him. Play his game, take revenge or turn the tables. Though that does mean his reputation can no longer keep the Dalelands safe from Red Wizards, Dragon Cultists and Zhentarim magi.
Lord Mourngrym Amcathra
“Lord Mourngrym still thinks milk comes from kitchens and roads fix themselves”
Instead of the earnest, duty‑bound lord of Shadowdale, Mourngrym is a vain, pampered noblefrom Waterdeep sent to Shadowdale because his family wanted him out of the way. Convinced he’s destined for greatness despite never having earned anything he is obsessed with appearances, titles, and ceremony.
What’s more he’s completely unprepared for rural life, danger, or responsibility. He’s not evil — just entitled, sheltered, and catastrophically unaware of how the world works. This means that Shadowdale is at terrible risk from the various forces surrounding it. It also means that if the PCs play up to his expectations and vanity they could actually be quite influential.
The Gods
“If the gods care for us, they’ve a strange way of showing it — like a parent who forgets your name.”
For this to work the gods need a little re-write. Instead of omniscient beings, the gods become ancient, powerful entities (or newly raised powers seriously out of their depth) with limited perception, bound by cosmic rules they barely understand and prone to mistakes, rivalries, and miscalculations. They are entirely dependent on mortal belief to maintain stability which gives them a certain self interest when it comes to deciding where to spend their divine currency. Their interventions are imperfect decisions rather than divine certainties. The Time of Troubles wasn’t a grand lesson for mortals. It was a catastrophic administrative meltdown among the gods, with Ao acting like a furious supervisor.
Clerics and paladins still get spells, but the gods frequently rely on the weave to interpret faith. They can’t possible respond personally to every prayer… though the clergy will often claim otherwise. A cleric’s miracle might be a genuine divine response, a weave generated effect shaped by belief or a coincidence interpreted as divine will. Mortals can’t tell the difference. Temples, priests, and bards have been telling stories for centuries. Much of what mortals “know” about the gods is exaggerated or politically motivated. This lets me keep every myth, every scripture, every divine appearance — but gives me license to reinterpret them as unreliable.
In Conclusion
All this creates lots of opportunities for humor and for the players to become the centre of attention. It’s a Counter-Realms which takes the big names and makes interaction with them far more interesting than them being the heroes who did it all themselves first.
It’s worth saying again that not all NPCs behave this way. There are good and honest people that the PCs will meet. They just tend not to be the big players in the area. Also I’m not precious about Lore. Mourngrym is my lord of Shadowdale even though in the canon realms he would be dead and buried. Same for the Knights of Myth Drannor.
What do people think, fun idea for a jaded set of long term players or a desecration of everything the realms hold dear?
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