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Robert J. Schwalb Blog Discussion; Feats: Do We need them?
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<blockquote data-quote="Incenjucar" data-source="post: 5514960" data-attributes="member: 6182"><p>Yeah... aside from the feat tax feats like Expertise... I disagree with much of the essay.</p><p></p><p>Skill Feats: Skill feats come in a variety of flavors. There are the vanilla +3 to a skill feats, the +2 to skill+extra goody feats, and a few outliers like Jack of All Trades. The +2+goody feats be interesting and flavorful. For characters who have the right stats, +2 or +3 to a skill can be overkill, but if you build your character around skill usage (Bluff and Intimidate have many special tricks), it can be a very worthwhile investment. For characters who do not have the right stats, it can be the deciding factor in whether or not a skill is worth bothering with - being able to use stealth reliably is worth a few feats, and can be a defining trait for a character.</p><p></p><p>Math Feats: I mostly agree here. I believe that to-hit bonuses should only be available using conditional feats and that defense feats should remain low, with some conditional defenses. Slight, conditional math tweaks can be great, but static math tweaks should be minimal. Feat taxes are just deeply unpleasant things. That said, there are some exceptions. Some of the math feats are just making specialization work - some builds do this for us now, but before Pyromancers and MM3, there was a distinct value to the various ways to cut through fire resist so that you could play a fire-happy wizard without being screwed for daring not to pack 31 flavors of spell.</p><p></p><p>Race Feats: I believe that feats should be available to allow someone to fully explore the concepts associated with their race. While the number of dragonborn breath feats is nearing absurd levels, you know what, some of them are just snazzy and should be there. While it might force developers to *gasp* research to do their jobs which they are paid for, options don't harm the players unless said designers fail at their jobs which they are paid for. I do believe that we should move away from REQUIRING every race to have X amount of support, but if there is a good feat idea that really brings out the flavor of a concept, GIVE IT.</p><p></p><p>Class Feats: These are kind of all over the place. Sometimes a class feat is just a no-brainer more-power option, like the feats that boost striker damage from d6 to d8, and those are tacky. However, more mathematically nebulous feats exist that provide you more ways to do things and put you into one specialization or another, and those feats are great. Deadeye Slinger is a great example - it lets a rogue turn a sling into a superior weapon. The variety of bonuses you can get for starting first are also great, as it focuses your character on quick-strikes and scouting and determines your playstyle. Underhanded Tactics is another good one - it gives a rogue an option to sacrifice damage for control, and gives them some nice versatility. I'd like to see as many of these as possible made into non-class feats (obviously some of these key off of a class feature), but those which aren't absolute no-brainers can add great variety without sacrificing an entire power choice.</p><p></p><p>Power Feats: Here I would say that execution does not reflect concept. Some of these are quite fun, like many bloodline powers, and I'd hate to see those go just because R&D wasn't screening things well.</p><p></p><p>Overall, I think that feats should be more open. I have no issue with how Essentials has moved away from class- and race-limited feats into feats that are available to everyone. That's great, and I'd like to see them go back and modify some old feats to be race/class/deity-agnostic (seriously, why can only the rogue make slings into superior weapons?). I hate restrictions that aren't forced by mechanics (obviously you can't use an Infernal Wrath feat if you're a gnome), and I'd be happy to see those go. </p><p></p><p>But feats are great. Feats are what allow me to have an invoker who uses a short bow for his attacks. Feats give me snazzy bonuses to encourage me to use thunder and lightning powers one after the other. Feats let me play a vampire dwarf paladin. Feats let me gain the shadow keyword and a few shadow features so that I can play a warforged refugee from the Shadowfel who has something to show for being made of "shadowsteel" or whatever.</p><p></p><p>And man, if you think that feats are important for adding variety to AEDU classes... exactly how much build variety would knights and slayers and vampires have without feats?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Incenjucar, post: 5514960, member: 6182"] Yeah... aside from the feat tax feats like Expertise... I disagree with much of the essay. Skill Feats: Skill feats come in a variety of flavors. There are the vanilla +3 to a skill feats, the +2 to skill+extra goody feats, and a few outliers like Jack of All Trades. The +2+goody feats be interesting and flavorful. For characters who have the right stats, +2 or +3 to a skill can be overkill, but if you build your character around skill usage (Bluff and Intimidate have many special tricks), it can be a very worthwhile investment. For characters who do not have the right stats, it can be the deciding factor in whether or not a skill is worth bothering with - being able to use stealth reliably is worth a few feats, and can be a defining trait for a character. Math Feats: I mostly agree here. I believe that to-hit bonuses should only be available using conditional feats and that defense feats should remain low, with some conditional defenses. Slight, conditional math tweaks can be great, but static math tweaks should be minimal. Feat taxes are just deeply unpleasant things. That said, there are some exceptions. Some of the math feats are just making specialization work - some builds do this for us now, but before Pyromancers and MM3, there was a distinct value to the various ways to cut through fire resist so that you could play a fire-happy wizard without being screwed for daring not to pack 31 flavors of spell. Race Feats: I believe that feats should be available to allow someone to fully explore the concepts associated with their race. While the number of dragonborn breath feats is nearing absurd levels, you know what, some of them are just snazzy and should be there. While it might force developers to *gasp* research to do their jobs which they are paid for, options don't harm the players unless said designers fail at their jobs which they are paid for. I do believe that we should move away from REQUIRING every race to have X amount of support, but if there is a good feat idea that really brings out the flavor of a concept, GIVE IT. Class Feats: These are kind of all over the place. Sometimes a class feat is just a no-brainer more-power option, like the feats that boost striker damage from d6 to d8, and those are tacky. However, more mathematically nebulous feats exist that provide you more ways to do things and put you into one specialization or another, and those feats are great. Deadeye Slinger is a great example - it lets a rogue turn a sling into a superior weapon. The variety of bonuses you can get for starting first are also great, as it focuses your character on quick-strikes and scouting and determines your playstyle. Underhanded Tactics is another good one - it gives a rogue an option to sacrifice damage for control, and gives them some nice versatility. I'd like to see as many of these as possible made into non-class feats (obviously some of these key off of a class feature), but those which aren't absolute no-brainers can add great variety without sacrificing an entire power choice. Power Feats: Here I would say that execution does not reflect concept. Some of these are quite fun, like many bloodline powers, and I'd hate to see those go just because R&D wasn't screening things well. Overall, I think that feats should be more open. I have no issue with how Essentials has moved away from class- and race-limited feats into feats that are available to everyone. That's great, and I'd like to see them go back and modify some old feats to be race/class/deity-agnostic (seriously, why can only the rogue make slings into superior weapons?). I hate restrictions that aren't forced by mechanics (obviously you can't use an Infernal Wrath feat if you're a gnome), and I'd be happy to see those go. But feats are great. Feats are what allow me to have an invoker who uses a short bow for his attacks. Feats give me snazzy bonuses to encourage me to use thunder and lightning powers one after the other. Feats let me play a vampire dwarf paladin. Feats let me gain the shadow keyword and a few shadow features so that I can play a warforged refugee from the Shadowfel who has something to show for being made of "shadowsteel" or whatever. And man, if you think that feats are important for adding variety to AEDU classes... exactly how much build variety would knights and slayers and vampires have without feats? [/QUOTE]
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