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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aegir" data-source="post: 4126140" data-attributes="member: 52089">I think thats exactly what he was saying. Even in building 3E it was understood that things like summoned monsters were essentially giving that PC extra actions, so to balance it they made the summoned monsters extremely weak compared to the level required to summon them.If, instead, a summoner wizard had to give up some or all of his own actions for a summoned beasty to act, then the summons can be made significantly more powerful, and a summoner can serve as a kind of skeleton key controller: whatever is needed for the situation (extra defender? shifty beast for setting up flanks? maybe a bit of extra long range punch with an artillery monster?) can be conjured up and effectively replaces that PC to some extent.Theres also the possibility that summons are minion beasts, and even that would be more effective than 3E summons. Minions may not hit hard, but their chance of hitting is pretty high, and are weak enough that they could go ignored long enough to get in several good smacks.</blockquote>